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It is almost certainly not worth your time to try to be in the top 10 in your class. Nearly everyone is much better off doing other things with their time than

It is almost certainly not worth your time to try to be in the top 10 in your class. Nearly everyone is much better off doing other things with their time than studying to try to get an elite college for a good deal. There's little evidence that where you go to school matters. If you take Albert Einstein and you put him in a community college, he's still going to be Albert Einstein, and you're still going to just be you at Harvard.

ameister14 3y ago
>There's little evidence that where you go to school matters. That's not quite true. There is little evidence that if you go to Penn instead of Penn State you have different results, but there are caveats. First, you have to be able to get into both. [edit]The studies control for selection, so the ones showing no increase in wages are studying the same cohort at Penn and Penn State, but there are more students at Penn State that are not members of that cohort than there are students at Penn. Second, you need to go to a college with enough people and have access to a similar cohort of intelligent, hard-working and advantaged students. >If you take Albert Einstein and you put him in a community college, he's still going to be Albert Einstein, and you're still going to just be you at Harvard. Maybe so - most people aren't Albert Einstein, though, and that Harvard degree gets you a look at places where the community college degree does not.
- ModernMech 3y ago
  Regarding Penn vs. Penn State, the valedictorian at my PA high school got into both. He ended up going to the Penn State honors school, and he's doing great today. Salutatorian (same GPA actually but one fewer AP class broke the tie) went to Penn and he's also doing great. So I guess that's to say.... shrug. Honestly I'd live in State College over Philly any day of the week.
- treis 3y ago
  Penn's not really the level of school that will be that much better over a flagship state school. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Princeton, and maybe a few more are that level.
  - csa 3y ago
    > Penn's not really the level of school that will be that much better over a flagship state school. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Princeton, and maybe a few more are that level. Pretty sure Wharton fits in with the profiles you mentioned. The College… yeah, sounds about right (maybe a flagship state school honors program). Penn students apply to a specific school, so the student body profile of each school is quite different (sometimes to almost comically different degrees).
  - arebop 3y ago
    The median Penn grad ends up making a bit more money than the median Stanford grad and less than the median MIT grad. They all make considerably more than a Berkeley grad, who makes considerably more than someone from Iowa State University. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-pennsylvania https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/massachusetts-institute-of-technology https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/stanford-university https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-california-berkeley https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/iowa-state-university https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit...
dweekly 3y ago
Somewhat surprisingly, the impact on lifetime earnings of attending an elite college is nil for men but strong for women. https://www.nber.org/papers/w25315 https://www.nber.org/papers/w25315
- kodah 3y ago
  Women use their credentials more than men because they say a subset of men don't respect them without their credentials being aired. If that's true then it makes sense that the benefit to men is nil because they're viewed competent by default whereas women have to prove competency. Somewhat anecdotally people regularly confuse me for a mathematician although I lack any degree. I just like math and using it to prove my point; plus I'm kind of a late bloomer to math so it's more relevant to me than rote.
  - snovymgodym 3y ago
    Curious that you say that, because I remember recently reading that women on average are unwilling to "date down" in terms of higher education levels, while it's not really a factor for men.
  - starcraft2wol 3y ago
    That's the most charitable interpretation I can think of. Wouldn't you agree that stereotypes are most impactful with first impressions and then diminish over time for those who know you?
ModernMech 3y ago
It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. If you have the requisite skill and persistence to be in the top 10 in the class, you probably don't need to be in the top 10. But if you have that skill and you don't use it to be in the top 10, what are you doing instead? It better be something good, because competing against other highly motivated and skilled peers for a top 10 spot builds a lot of character and fortitude. Top 10 in my class are the best of the best. No one is sneaking in there.
MisterBastahrd 3y ago
> It is almost certainly not worth your time to try to be in the top 10 in your class. In Louisiana, it literally gets you a free public college education.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Which for a depressing number of kids in Louisiana, is one of their only hopes of breaking a cycle of poverty.

ameister14 3y ago

>There's little evidence that where you go to school matters. That's not quite true. There is little evidence that if you go to Penn instead of Penn State you have different results, but there are caveats. First, you have to be able to get into both. [edit]The studies control for selection, so the ones showing no increase in wages are studying the same cohort at Penn and Penn State, but there are more students at Penn State that are not members of that cohort than there are students at Penn. Second, you need to go to a college with enough people and have access to a similar cohort of intelligent, hard-working and advantaged students. >If you take Albert Einstein and you put him in a community college, he's still going to be Albert Einstein, and you're still going to just be you at Harvard. Maybe so - most people aren't Albert Einstein, though, and that Harvard degree gets you a look at places where the community college degree does not.

ModernMech 3y ago
Regarding Penn vs. Penn State, the valedictorian at my PA high school got into both. He ended up going to the Penn State honors school, and he's doing great today. Salutatorian (same GPA actually but one fewer AP class broke the tie) went to Penn and he's also doing great. So I guess that's to say.... shrug. Honestly I'd live in State College over Philly any day of the week.
treis 3y ago
Penn's not really the level of school that will be that much better over a flagship state school. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Princeton, and maybe a few more are that level.
- csa 3y ago
  > Penn's not really the level of school that will be that much better over a flagship state school. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Princeton, and maybe a few more are that level. Pretty sure Wharton fits in with the profiles you mentioned. The College… yeah, sounds about right (maybe a flagship state school honors program). Penn students apply to a specific school, so the student body profile of each school is quite different (sometimes to almost comically different degrees).
- arebop 3y ago
  The median Penn grad ends up making a bit more money than the median Stanford grad and less than the median MIT grad. They all make considerably more than a Berkeley grad, who makes considerably more than someone from Iowa State University. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-pennsylvania https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/massachusetts-institute-of-technology https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/stanford-university https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-california-berkeley https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/iowa-state-university https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit...

dweekly 3y ago

Somewhat surprisingly, the impact on lifetime earnings of attending an elite college is nil for men but strong for women. https://www.nber.org/papers/w25315 https://www.nber.org/papers/w25315

kodah 3y ago
Women use their credentials more than men because they say a subset of men don't respect them without their credentials being aired. If that's true then it makes sense that the benefit to men is nil because they're viewed competent by default whereas women have to prove competency. Somewhat anecdotally people regularly confuse me for a mathematician although I lack any degree. I just like math and using it to prove my point; plus I'm kind of a late bloomer to math so it's more relevant to me than rote.
- snovymgodym 3y ago
  Curious that you say that, because I remember recently reading that women on average are unwilling to "date down" in terms of higher education levels, while it's not really a factor for men.
- starcraft2wol 3y ago
  That's the most charitable interpretation I can think of. Wouldn't you agree that stereotypes are most impactful with first impressions and then diminish over time for those who know you?

ModernMech 3y ago

It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. If you have the requisite skill and persistence to be in the top 10 in the class, you probably don't need to be in the top 10. But if you have that skill and you don't use it to be in the top 10, what are you doing instead? It better be something good, because competing against other highly motivated and skilled peers for a top 10 spot builds a lot of character and fortitude. Top 10 in my class are the best of the best. No one is sneaking in there.

MisterBastahrd 3y ago

> It is almost certainly not worth your time to try to be in the top 10 in your class. In Louisiana, it literally gets you a free public college education.

mrguyorama 3y ago
Which for a depressing number of kids in Louisiana, is one of their only hopes of breaking a cycle of poverty.