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People do these studies so that you can then use it to actually improve society by, let's say increase and improve our green spaces. When someone asks you why y

People do these studies so that you can then use it to actually improve society by, let's say increase and improve our green spaces. When someone asks you why you're wasting time and money on a silly childish thing like a greener city instead of more asphalt for Business Inc. you can point to this study.

LatteLazy 3y ago
But we already know green spaces are nice. And this study does not prove anything about them being good for people. Maybe instead of X USD on this study we should have spent that money on an actual green space somewhere...
- ethanbond 3y ago
  It does in fact increase our evidence that they’re actually good for people beyond being mere perks that some people enjoy.
  - LatteLazy 3y ago
    No, It doesn't. Because it does not show causation. We either prove causation or it's worthless.
    - baanlox 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - 10g1k 3y ago
      Not at all. That's not how science works. A huge percentage of rigorous scientific studies are specifically showing correlations between things. "Correlation doesn't equal causation!" cried the internerds. It doesn't need to. If you've got a set (P) of N people who consume substance X, and N people (Q) who did not consume substance X, and 100% of set P died within half an hour of that act, and 100% of Q are still happy little dandelions, that is an entirely valid scientific finding, and an entirely sufficient reason to stop the supply of substance X.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      That’s how science works bud. Correlation is really all we ever have for anything and you don’t leap from “no data” to “confident in causation” without miles and miles of “just correlative evidence of varying quality.” And of course even once you get to high enough conviction to call it causation, it’s still liable to be overturned and to reveal itself as a mere correlation nonetheless! Humans have never once “proved causation” of even a single phenomenon ever.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Not everyone agrees. Land is a scarce asset and plenty of people would rather have something else, like parking.
  - LatteLazy 3y ago
    So you will need to do REAL research to convince them. Which this isnt...
jprete 3y ago
Doing crap studies to argue from the authority of science has gradually eroded that authority. I don’t know that this study is crap, but it fits the pattern on the surface: “Correlate politically valuable thing A with biomarker B, observe that B is correlated with universally valued C, totally ignore statistics to infer that A causes C”. I say this as someone who actively believes it’s healthier to live in or near green spaces!
- Swenrekcah 3y ago
  Sure, but the problem with crap scientific studies is not studies or science, it's the crap. Allowing lazy content pushers to 'report' on studies without understanding any of it is much more of a problem than any study, however flawed. That and unscrupulous politicians and megacorps is what has eroded the trust in our society, not only of science but almost anything.
onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
Most of the time, people are pretty good at knowing what they want. Everyone seems to want the city completely paved over in roads and parking and places to shop and eat and do as much for as cheap as humanly possible. There's a small number of people who want greenspace and acknowledge it comes at a cost, and they seek it out. Everyone else seeks out more cheap appliances and clothes and gasoline.
- Swenrekcah 3y ago
  By this logic we must conclude that only a tiny portion of people actually want to live in beachfront properties and take a few months off to travel every year. Everyone else seeks out cheaper apartments and 9-5 jobs with two weeks vacation.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    You could. There's plenty of beachfront places in other countries American families could easily afford and retire and yet chose to work to live in dumpy apartments in Manhattan instead. It only works if it's within your financial means. We can't all assume everyone doesn't want a $200M house in the hills with a megayacht and a full staff because they don't have it. They don't have the means. But if you have the means and chose something else, it's not because you're dumb and society is evil and tricking you. It's because that's what you want.
    - Swenrekcah 3y ago
      The actions people take are generally not a product of careful deliberation and certainly not always genuine reflections of their deepest desires. Most of the time, people just do things without thinking too much about it and they do the things that are the "default mode" operations in the context in which they are operating. It is not wise to look at actions people take and conclude that's what they really wanted to do. At the very least you'd need to ask them about it. There may be 100 reasons why they feel tied to a spot where they actually don't want so much to live in. So let's try to really and truly improve the cities, make them walkable with green and blue spaces, easy public transport out to larger parks and reserves, etc.

LatteLazy 3y ago

But we already know green spaces are nice. And this study does not prove anything about them being good for people. Maybe instead of X USD on this study we should have spent that money on an actual green space somewhere...

ethanbond 3y ago
It does in fact increase our evidence that they’re actually good for people beyond being mere perks that some people enjoy.
- LatteLazy 3y ago
  No, It doesn't. Because it does not show causation. We either prove causation or it's worthless.
  - baanlox 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - 10g1k 3y ago
    Not at all. That's not how science works. A huge percentage of rigorous scientific studies are specifically showing correlations between things. "Correlation doesn't equal causation!" cried the internerds. It doesn't need to. If you've got a set (P) of N people who consume substance X, and N people (Q) who did not consume substance X, and 100% of set P died within half an hour of that act, and 100% of Q are still happy little dandelions, that is an entirely valid scientific finding, and an entirely sufficient reason to stop the supply of substance X.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    That’s how science works bud. Correlation is really all we ever have for anything and you don’t leap from “no data” to “confident in causation” without miles and miles of “just correlative evidence of varying quality.” And of course even once you get to high enough conviction to call it causation, it’s still liable to be overturned and to reveal itself as a mere correlation nonetheless! Humans have never once “proved causation” of even a single phenomenon ever.
CalRobert 3y ago
Not everyone agrees. Land is a scarce asset and plenty of people would rather have something else, like parking.
- LatteLazy 3y ago
  So you will need to do REAL research to convince them. Which this isnt...

jprete 3y ago

Doing crap studies to argue from the authority of science has gradually eroded that authority. I don’t know that this study is crap, but it fits the pattern on the surface: “Correlate politically valuable thing A with biomarker B, observe that B is correlated with universally valued C, totally ignore statistics to infer that A causes C”. I say this as someone who actively believes it’s healthier to live in or near green spaces!

Swenrekcah 3y ago
Sure, but the problem with crap scientific studies is not studies or science, it's the crap. Allowing lazy content pushers to 'report' on studies without understanding any of it is much more of a problem than any study, however flawed. That and unscrupulous politicians and megacorps is what has eroded the trust in our society, not only of science but almost anything.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

Most of the time, people are pretty good at knowing what they want. Everyone seems to want the city completely paved over in roads and parking and places to shop and eat and do as much for as cheap as humanly possible. There's a small number of people who want greenspace and acknowledge it comes at a cost, and they seek it out. Everyone else seeks out more cheap appliances and clothes and gasoline.

Swenrekcah 3y ago
By this logic we must conclude that only a tiny portion of people actually want to live in beachfront properties and take a few months off to travel every year. Everyone else seeks out cheaper apartments and 9-5 jobs with two weeks vacation.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  You could. There's plenty of beachfront places in other countries American families could easily afford and retire and yet chose to work to live in dumpy apartments in Manhattan instead. It only works if it's within your financial means. We can't all assume everyone doesn't want a $200M house in the hills with a megayacht and a full staff because they don't have it. They don't have the means. But if you have the means and chose something else, it's not because you're dumb and society is evil and tricking you. It's because that's what you want.
  - Swenrekcah 3y ago
    The actions people take are generally not a product of careful deliberation and certainly not always genuine reflections of their deepest desires. Most of the time, people just do things without thinking too much about it and they do the things that are the "default mode" operations in the context in which they are operating. It is not wise to look at actions people take and conclude that's what they really wanted to do. At the very least you'd need to ask them about it. There may be 100 reasons why they feel tied to a spot where they actually don't want so much to live in. So let's try to really and truly improve the cities, make them walkable with green and blue spaces, easy public transport out to larger parks and reserves, etc.