3 ms·

College as the base line assumption for getting a job is really bad, but there are a lot of other good effects that a year of college can give you that high sch

College as the base line assumption for getting a job is really bad, but there are a lot of other good effects that a year of college can give you that high school can't. 1) Since it's a lot bigger you will tend to mix with a much larger (and more diverse) number of people in an adult setting. 2) Since you get to choose your own subjects you can experience gaining knowledge that you actually want to gain, rather than knowledge as a means to an end (this would be even more true if again college wasn't a base requirement for jobs). 3) Most people will need to move at least a little way to go to college, which can help stop them forming a rut that they settle into after school and never get out of again.

111111IIIIIII 3y ago
Material sustenance is a prerequisite for any of those things to be considered good rather than distraction. It's not ironic that the reason poor people go to college is to get a better job; it's the result of a society divided by social class. It's the poor imitating the rich in hopes that they can make a living someday. To say the least, it is cruel and unusual.
- vba616 3y ago
  >it's the result of a society divided by social class Isn't it really the opposite? Pre-industrial revolution, most people would be farmers, and they would learn outside of school nearly everything they needed to know. Today, it's much more common for people to do something different from their parents, and even if college doesn't put you in an elite group, it gives you the freedom to choose from different lifestyles. I think people may be oblivious to this if they are a few generations removed from their farming ancestors, such that they never knew a living relative who was the first to abandon their traditional life and get educated and go to the city to work.
  - 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
    > Pre-industrial revolution, most people would be farmers, and they would learn outside of school nearly everything they needed to know. Nothing about society or college was comparable pre-industrial revolution, unless maybe you came from wealth and are comparing the life of aristocracy. What's your inheritance? > gives you the freedom to choose from different lifestyles See my previous comment. > I think people may be oblivious to this if they are a few generations removed from their farming ancestors, such that they never knew a living relative who was the first to abandon their traditional life and get educated and go to the city to work. Pre-industrial revolution peasants did not "abandon their traditional life" by choice; very far from it. They were forced into industrial centers as common lands were evacuated and commodified to staff the factories. Post-industrial revolution, they were forced by waves of technological change and economic instability. Again, only the very privileged few ever had the luxury of "abandoning traditional life" by choice.
    - vba616 3y ago
      >Nothing about society or college was comparable pre-industrial revolution, unless maybe you came from wealth and are comparing the life of aristocracy. What's your inheritance? We must be talking past each other. I was saying that being a farmer, or not being a farmer, but with no more formal education than a typical farmer, was brutal. People that could've done a hundred things with a college education spent their lives doing back breaking physical labor until they couldn't stand any more.
      - 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
        That is exactly the excuse made by the ruling class for forcing people into the factories. It’s nonsense. We aren’t talking past each other. You are just talking about things you know nothing about.
        vba616 3y ago
        My comments were based on my own family.
        111111IIIIIII 3y ago
        Then don't project such things as generalizations. The general fact was that working in factories was far more brutal than working on the family farm.
        vba616 3y ago
        It's not that I assume that my family is/was representative, it's that I don't fall for potted history because of knowing about real people. If your worldview is wrong enough, even a few data points will show with high probability it is incorrect.
roxgib 3y ago
This is all undoubtably true, but are any of these worth four years and a ton of debt? Perhaps for some individuals, but across the board?
- Turskarama 3y ago
  Probably not, which is why I specified one year. It is also perfectly within the power (if not the will) of any country above subsistence to provide one year of education for free.
constantcrying 3y ago
All of these can be accomplished without going to college. Moving away from home and doing some vocational training/apprenticeship works just as well. Especially since you actually get payed for your education and can actually be independent, instead of your parents paying for you.
lotsoweiners 3y ago
Where does online college fit into this? I got a bachelor’s degree from my state school. I never went to the campus once and only interacted with my teacher (not regularly). My diploma and transcript look exactly like everyone who went on campus.
samtho 3y ago
#2 is becoming decreasing true as more general education is piled on to both make up for the knowledge that students increasingly lack of abilities (as high schools are pressured to just pass them) as well as the perverse incentive for colleges to pack in these classes to keep them paying for more classes. This is compounded by the fact that these ill-prepared students wont as successful in a more rigorous program so departmental pressures within the college system have reduced the scope of undergrad classes by a staggering amount. These days, their major grants them surface-level, watered-down understanding, requiring the need to go into a masters or post-baccalaureate program for the privilege of learning anything useful.

111111IIIIIII 3y ago

Material sustenance is a prerequisite for any of those things to be considered good rather than distraction. It's not ironic that the reason poor people go to college is to get a better job; it's the result of a society divided by social class. It's the poor imitating the rich in hopes that they can make a living someday. To say the least, it is cruel and unusual.

vba616 3y ago
>it's the result of a society divided by social class Isn't it really the opposite? Pre-industrial revolution, most people would be farmers, and they would learn outside of school nearly everything they needed to know. Today, it's much more common for people to do something different from their parents, and even if college doesn't put you in an elite group, it gives you the freedom to choose from different lifestyles. I think people may be oblivious to this if they are a few generations removed from their farming ancestors, such that they never knew a living relative who was the first to abandon their traditional life and get educated and go to the city to work.
- 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
  > Pre-industrial revolution, most people would be farmers, and they would learn outside of school nearly everything they needed to know. Nothing about society or college was comparable pre-industrial revolution, unless maybe you came from wealth and are comparing the life of aristocracy. What's your inheritance? > gives you the freedom to choose from different lifestyles See my previous comment. > I think people may be oblivious to this if they are a few generations removed from their farming ancestors, such that they never knew a living relative who was the first to abandon their traditional life and get educated and go to the city to work. Pre-industrial revolution peasants did not "abandon their traditional life" by choice; very far from it. They were forced into industrial centers as common lands were evacuated and commodified to staff the factories. Post-industrial revolution, they were forced by waves of technological change and economic instability. Again, only the very privileged few ever had the luxury of "abandoning traditional life" by choice.
  - vba616 3y ago
    >Nothing about society or college was comparable pre-industrial revolution, unless maybe you came from wealth and are comparing the life of aristocracy. What's your inheritance? We must be talking past each other. I was saying that being a farmer, or not being a farmer, but with no more formal education than a typical farmer, was brutal. People that could've done a hundred things with a college education spent their lives doing back breaking physical labor until they couldn't stand any more.
    - 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
      That is exactly the excuse made by the ruling class for forcing people into the factories. It’s nonsense. We aren’t talking past each other. You are just talking about things you know nothing about.
      - vba616 3y ago
        My comments were based on my own family.
        111111IIIIIII 3y ago
        Then don't project such things as generalizations. The general fact was that working in factories was far more brutal than working on the family farm.
        vba616 3y ago
        It's not that I assume that my family is/was representative, it's that I don't fall for potted history because of knowing about real people. If your worldview is wrong enough, even a few data points will show with high probability it is incorrect.

roxgib 3y ago

This is all undoubtably true, but are any of these worth four years and a ton of debt? Perhaps for some individuals, but across the board?

Turskarama 3y ago
Probably not, which is why I specified one year. It is also perfectly within the power (if not the will) of any country above subsistence to provide one year of education for free.

constantcrying 3y ago

All of these can be accomplished without going to college. Moving away from home and doing some vocational training/apprenticeship works just as well. Especially since you actually get payed for your education and can actually be independent, instead of your parents paying for you.

lotsoweiners 3y ago

Where does online college fit into this? I got a bachelor’s degree from my state school. I never went to the campus once and only interacted with my teacher (not regularly). My diploma and transcript look exactly like everyone who went on campus.

samtho 3y ago

#2 is becoming decreasing true as more general education is piled on to both make up for the knowledge that students increasingly lack of abilities (as high schools are pressured to just pass them) as well as the perverse incentive for colleges to pack in these classes to keep them paying for more classes. This is compounded by the fact that these ill-prepared students wont as successful in a more rigorous program so departmental pressures within the college system have reduced the scope of undergrad classes by a staggering amount. These days, their major grants them surface-level, watered-down understanding, requiring the need to go into a masters or post-baccalaureate program for the privilege of learning anything useful.