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I mean, you should care about their profit margins if you like food delivery. As it stands they're on the verge of bankruptcy.

heavyset_go 3y ago
Food delivery is a solved problem independent of GrubHub's business model that relies on squeezing as much out of the market as they possibly can.
- bagacrap 3y ago
  Isn't making a profit everyone's business model? You can go volunteer at a soup kitchen if you just want to fill stomachs out of the kindness of your heart. I don't think food delivery is a solved problem. It could get a lot easier, more reliable, cheaper. I generally don't use it because my food doesn't always arrive in great condition (cold, spilled, etc) and it generates crazy amounts of petroleum based waste. At least the apps have made the ordering experience more predictable. From the restaurant owner's perspective, it's probably not practical to keep the right number of delivery people on staff at all times. So the apps help somewhat but the problem still isn't solved. From my perspective the apps create a marketplace where eaters who wish to remain stationary buy delivery services from workers who don't mind ambulation. You can pay the delivery people whatever you want since tipping is part of the culture. If you don't want to participate in the marketplace that's fine too. Most people don't participate in most markets.
anotherhue 3y ago
Restaurants have been able to provide delivery long before a VC intermediary was involved. I honestly prefer the in house delivery guy.
- cvalka 3y ago
  Oh, yes, taxis existed before Uber and other great hits.
  - stcroixx 3y ago
    I’d go back to taxis in a heartbeat.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      Yeah, where I live the taxi is a flat rate $40 to downtown from the airport vs $100-150 on rideshare.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
      Occasionally Uber is cheaper than a taxi. But sometimes it’s also not. Occasionally Uber is more convenient depending where you are. But Uber isn’t some super amazing thing. It’s a taxi service with an app. Uber eats is barely worth it in Sydney. I don’t save any time using it. So unless I get a coupon I never use it.
    - cvalka 3y ago
      They mostly sucked. The waiting time sucked, the service sucked(there was no reputation for each individual driver), in a lot of places it was a cartel artificially limiting the number of drivers. The existence of Uber/Lyft is a great benefit to the consumer.
      - stcroixx 3y ago
        Not for me. Close to zero wait time in their heyday in Chicago. Drivers were the same people. By law they could not refuse a ride and they actually respected the law unlike these companies whose business model depends on ignoring laws. Uber and Lyft just made them slower and more expensive.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    Delivery apps can exist without GrubHub just like taxi apps exist without Uber.
- rhaway84773 3y ago
  I remember some food delivery app’s ad during the NBA playoffs, and the whole thing was about how the guy would always order a pizza before his game because he had formed a good luck ritual with the delivery guy. And the first, most obvious thing that struck me was that delivery apps make this impossible, since they assign random delivery guys every time! The pre-delivery middleman days of restaurants employing their own delivery people was when this could actually have worked.
rhaway84773 3y ago
Uber and Grubhub are fascinating in that they’ve literally provided nothing in NYC that wasn’t already available 50 years ago, other than putting it on an app and taking a 30-40% cut for it while driving their workers to destitution (while making sure they can get away with not calling them workers).
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  > other than putting it on an app and taking a 30-40% cut for it while driving their workers to destitution (while making sure they can get away with not calling them workers). “This is the way.” - Sequoia, Silverlake et al (probably)
- LordShredda 3y ago
  Convenience and advertisement. Back in the day you'd call a phone number and have to interact with people like a normal human. Phone screens never ask you to repeat your words
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    Online ordering has been a thing for quite some time, now. There just wasn't an app with a multimillion dollar marketing budget for it.
  - thefz 3y ago
    Nothing preventing a taxi company to implement a system with an app as a frontend.
WheatMillington 3y ago
I don't care about food delivery. I've had food delivered maybe 3 times in the last 5 years. It's amazing what people think they can't do without.
- bagacrap 3y ago
  Cool. And I have never played disc golf.
bsder 3y ago
> As it stands they're on the verge of bankruptcy. Good? The only reason these companies exist is because a bunch of VCs subsidized them with the hope that there would be network effect lockins that could then be leveraged into an exploitable monopoly position. Now that money isn't free, the VCs are yanking the subsidy and the market will return to where it should be without the distortion of a bunch of sloshing VC money.
- bagacrap 3y ago
  Charitably I think it exists because VCs assume that economies of scale are more profitable and there is a difficult scaling problem here (connecting N customers to M service providers where N vacillates wildly based on time of week, weather, etc). Money is still pretty close to free as real rates are close to zero. As soon as inflation subsides I expect rates to come down again. But anyway I think the connection between interest rates and app economies is tenuous at best. We've never had a period with high real rates as well as high smartphone penetration so we don't know for sure, but I think technology will continue marching on and people with money will keep trying to develop new ways to tackle old problems.
FpUser 3y ago
I do not give a flying fuck about their profit margins and if they are to disappear tomorrow. I mostly cook myself and on rare occasions when I needed food delivery it was never a problem for the last 30 years that I've been in Canada.
- Incipient 3y ago
  If you mostly cook at home, you're not really involved in their market, so of course you're not going to have a vested interest in what happens. In the same way I'm sure you're not overly interested in what happens to the e-scooter market? However, I don't think anyone should care about a nascent industry not working out.
  - FpUser 3y ago
    >"...and on rare occasions when I needed food delivery it was never a problem for the last 30 years that I've been in Canada"

heavyset_go 3y ago

Food delivery is a solved problem independent of GrubHub's business model that relies on squeezing as much out of the market as they possibly can.

bagacrap 3y ago
Isn't making a profit everyone's business model? You can go volunteer at a soup kitchen if you just want to fill stomachs out of the kindness of your heart. I don't think food delivery is a solved problem. It could get a lot easier, more reliable, cheaper. I generally don't use it because my food doesn't always arrive in great condition (cold, spilled, etc) and it generates crazy amounts of petroleum based waste. At least the apps have made the ordering experience more predictable. From the restaurant owner's perspective, it's probably not practical to keep the right number of delivery people on staff at all times. So the apps help somewhat but the problem still isn't solved. From my perspective the apps create a marketplace where eaters who wish to remain stationary buy delivery services from workers who don't mind ambulation. You can pay the delivery people whatever you want since tipping is part of the culture. If you don't want to participate in the marketplace that's fine too. Most people don't participate in most markets.

anotherhue 3y ago

Restaurants have been able to provide delivery long before a VC intermediary was involved. I honestly prefer the in house delivery guy.

cvalka 3y ago
Oh, yes, taxis existed before Uber and other great hits.
- stcroixx 3y ago
  I’d go back to taxis in a heartbeat.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    Yeah, where I live the taxi is a flat rate $40 to downtown from the airport vs $100-150 on rideshare.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
    Occasionally Uber is cheaper than a taxi. But sometimes it’s also not. Occasionally Uber is more convenient depending where you are. But Uber isn’t some super amazing thing. It’s a taxi service with an app. Uber eats is barely worth it in Sydney. I don’t save any time using it. So unless I get a coupon I never use it.
  - cvalka 3y ago
    They mostly sucked. The waiting time sucked, the service sucked(there was no reputation for each individual driver), in a lot of places it was a cartel artificially limiting the number of drivers. The existence of Uber/Lyft is a great benefit to the consumer.
    - stcroixx 3y ago
      Not for me. Close to zero wait time in their heyday in Chicago. Drivers were the same people. By law they could not refuse a ride and they actually respected the law unlike these companies whose business model depends on ignoring laws. Uber and Lyft just made them slower and more expensive.
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  Delivery apps can exist without GrubHub just like taxi apps exist without Uber.
rhaway84773 3y ago
I remember some food delivery app’s ad during the NBA playoffs, and the whole thing was about how the guy would always order a pizza before his game because he had formed a good luck ritual with the delivery guy. And the first, most obvious thing that struck me was that delivery apps make this impossible, since they assign random delivery guys every time! The pre-delivery middleman days of restaurants employing their own delivery people was when this could actually have worked.

rhaway84773 3y ago

Uber and Grubhub are fascinating in that they’ve literally provided nothing in NYC that wasn’t already available 50 years ago, other than putting it on an app and taking a 30-40% cut for it while driving their workers to destitution (while making sure they can get away with not calling them workers).

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
> other than putting it on an app and taking a 30-40% cut for it while driving their workers to destitution (while making sure they can get away with not calling them workers). “This is the way.” - Sequoia, Silverlake et al (probably)
LordShredda 3y ago
Convenience and advertisement. Back in the day you'd call a phone number and have to interact with people like a normal human. Phone screens never ask you to repeat your words
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  Online ordering has been a thing for quite some time, now. There just wasn't an app with a multimillion dollar marketing budget for it.
- thefz 3y ago
  Nothing preventing a taxi company to implement a system with an app as a frontend.

WheatMillington 3y ago

I don't care about food delivery. I've had food delivered maybe 3 times in the last 5 years. It's amazing what people think they can't do without.

bagacrap 3y ago
Cool. And I have never played disc golf.

bsder 3y ago

> As it stands they're on the verge of bankruptcy. Good? The only reason these companies exist is because a bunch of VCs subsidized them with the hope that there would be network effect lockins that could then be leveraged into an exploitable monopoly position. Now that money isn't free, the VCs are yanking the subsidy and the market will return to where it should be without the distortion of a bunch of sloshing VC money.

bagacrap 3y ago
Charitably I think it exists because VCs assume that economies of scale are more profitable and there is a difficult scaling problem here (connecting N customers to M service providers where N vacillates wildly based on time of week, weather, etc). Money is still pretty close to free as real rates are close to zero. As soon as inflation subsides I expect rates to come down again. But anyway I think the connection between interest rates and app economies is tenuous at best. We've never had a period with high real rates as well as high smartphone penetration so we don't know for sure, but I think technology will continue marching on and people with money will keep trying to develop new ways to tackle old problems.

FpUser 3y ago

I do not give a flying fuck about their profit margins and if they are to disappear tomorrow. I mostly cook myself and on rare occasions when I needed food delivery it was never a problem for the last 30 years that I've been in Canada.

Incipient 3y ago
If you mostly cook at home, you're not really involved in their market, so of course you're not going to have a vested interest in what happens. In the same way I'm sure you're not overly interested in what happens to the e-scooter market? However, I don't think anyone should care about a nascent industry not working out.
- FpUser 3y ago
  >"...and on rare occasions when I needed food delivery it was never a problem for the last 30 years that I've been in Canada"