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Yeah I'm not sure how a GPU can be both slow and uncompetitive and also the best GPU available at any price. That would imply that they're extremely competitive

Yeah I'm not sure how a GPU can be both slow and uncompetitive and also the best GPU available at any price. That would imply that they're extremely competitive. Some people just have an ax to grind and will contort their facts to agree with preexisting thoughts and feelings. I think it's called cognitive dissonance.

photonerd 3y ago
> the best GPU available at any price That’s… very debatable. Don’t get me wrong, they’re definitely competitive at all levels but AMD absolutely is too & very arguably is better in some cases.
- deelowe 3y ago
  Are we discussing gaming or AI? When it comes to AI solutions, AMD isn't even close.
- Keyframe 3y ago
  Not really. Market also says otherwise.
  - photonerd 3y ago
    Market says nothing of the sort! AMD is extremely popular still. Plus while cards like the Nvidia RTX 4090 rank very highly they cost 60+% more than the extremely comparable AMD RX 7900 XTX. That’s definitely not “best at any price”.
    - Keyframe 3y ago
      When you say AMD is extremely popular still, yet Nvidia has what like 82-84% market share.. what are we actually talking about here in the context of "market talks"?
      - tomnipotent 3y ago
        > Nvidia has what like 82-84% market share That's the PC consumer market. Every Xbox and PlayStation shipped in the past decade has had an AMD GPU.
        Keyframe 3y ago
        Yes, and that's a great ArtX doing and legacy tracing roots to SGI and Nintendo64 cooperation which ATI bought (into). However, it's not at all relevant since consumers aren't buying those for AMD GPUs, they are specialized (to consoles), and they're buying it for the brand of consoles themselves not because they have AMD GPU in it. Same parallel could then be drawn for intel's integrated GPUs. We're talking discrete GPU cards where market directly picks and chooses and it chose Nvidia that it's not even a contest anymore it seems. Even HPC area is done for almost.
        photonerd 3y ago
        The market however IS buying those. The market has spoken, remember?
        Keyframe 3y ago
        That's not how it works. But I'll bite since you seem to follow a religion here - you can follow market talks from other end, revenue. It tells the same story, eerily so in fact.
        tomnipotent 3y ago
        > It tells the same story, eerily so in fact. NVIDIA had $11bln in 2022 revenues from graphics vs. AMD's $6bln.
        Keyframe 3y ago
        Nvidia has 7b per quarter, AMD 5b (out of which 1.7 are all GPUs including consoles)
- pokerface_86 3y ago
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pxc 3y ago
There are two senses of 'competitive' in play here: the sense in which a market can be 'competitive' or not by featuring alternatives that are comparable and whose successors leapfrog one another in various virtues over time, and the sense in which a product can be 'competitive' within a market by being more or less at least as good as whatever else is out there. NVIDIA is definitely not 'competitive' in the sense of participating in a competitive market, or in the sense of being characterized by furious striving for rapid and continuous improvement. Many of their newer cards are barely 'competitive' with their own cards from a generation or two ago. It's extremely clear to me what people mean when they say that NVIDIA or their GPUs are not meaningfully 'competitive'. I don't think it's that hard to see, actually.
- tomnipotent 3y ago
  > Many of their newer cards are barely 'competitive' The 4060 is the only card this generation that's a flop, and I wouldn't consider one in four being "many". > I don't think it's that hard to see, actually. It is if you're not looking or trying to be disingenuous. Every generation has introduced new features and had noticeable impacts on the consumer products in its category (games). DLSS alone has been a game-changer, pun intended.
andrewstuart 3y ago
AMD Radeon RX 7600 review: Another water-treading midrange GPU for $269 https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/review-amds-269-rx-7600-is-a-good-1080p-card-but-the-rtx-4060-looms/amp/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/review-amds-269-rx-7... “AMD fails again: RX 7600 review” https://youtu.be/Yhoj2kfk-x0 https://youtu.be/Yhoj2kfk-x0
stcroixx 3y ago
By having no competition and no reason to aggressively innovate.

photonerd 3y ago

> the best GPU available at any price That’s… very debatable. Don’t get me wrong, they’re definitely competitive at all levels but AMD absolutely is too & very arguably is better in some cases.

deelowe 3y ago
Are we discussing gaming or AI? When it comes to AI solutions, AMD isn't even close.
Keyframe 3y ago
Not really. Market also says otherwise.
- photonerd 3y ago
  Market says nothing of the sort! AMD is extremely popular still. Plus while cards like the Nvidia RTX 4090 rank very highly they cost 60+% more than the extremely comparable AMD RX 7900 XTX. That’s definitely not “best at any price”.
  - Keyframe 3y ago
    When you say AMD is extremely popular still, yet Nvidia has what like 82-84% market share.. what are we actually talking about here in the context of "market talks"?
    - tomnipotent 3y ago
      > Nvidia has what like 82-84% market share That's the PC consumer market. Every Xbox and PlayStation shipped in the past decade has had an AMD GPU.
      - Keyframe 3y ago
        Yes, and that's a great ArtX doing and legacy tracing roots to SGI and Nintendo64 cooperation which ATI bought (into). However, it's not at all relevant since consumers aren't buying those for AMD GPUs, they are specialized (to consoles), and they're buying it for the brand of consoles themselves not because they have AMD GPU in it. Same parallel could then be drawn for intel's integrated GPUs. We're talking discrete GPU cards where market directly picks and chooses and it chose Nvidia that it's not even a contest anymore it seems. Even HPC area is done for almost.
        photonerd 3y ago
        The market however IS buying those. The market has spoken, remember?
        Keyframe 3y ago
        That's not how it works. But I'll bite since you seem to follow a religion here - you can follow market talks from other end, revenue. It tells the same story, eerily so in fact.
        tomnipotent 3y ago
        > It tells the same story, eerily so in fact. NVIDIA had $11bln in 2022 revenues from graphics vs. AMD's $6bln.
        Keyframe 3y ago
        Nvidia has 7b per quarter, AMD 5b (out of which 1.7 are all GPUs including consoles)
pokerface_86 3y ago
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pxc 3y ago

There are two senses of 'competitive' in play here: the sense in which a market can be 'competitive' or not by featuring alternatives that are comparable and whose successors leapfrog one another in various virtues over time, and the sense in which a product can be 'competitive' within a market by being more or less at least as good as whatever else is out there. NVIDIA is definitely not 'competitive' in the sense of participating in a competitive market, or in the sense of being characterized by furious striving for rapid and continuous improvement. Many of their newer cards are barely 'competitive' with their own cards from a generation or two ago. It's extremely clear to me what people mean when they say that NVIDIA or their GPUs are not meaningfully 'competitive'. I don't think it's that hard to see, actually.

tomnipotent 3y ago
> Many of their newer cards are barely 'competitive' The 4060 is the only card this generation that's a flop, and I wouldn't consider one in four being "many". > I don't think it's that hard to see, actually. It is if you're not looking or trying to be disingenuous. Every generation has introduced new features and had noticeable impacts on the consumer products in its category (games). DLSS alone has been a game-changer, pun intended.

andrewstuart 3y ago

AMD Radeon RX 7600 review: Another water-treading midrange GPU for $269 https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/review-amds-269-rx-7600-is-a-good-1080p-card-but-the-rtx-4060-looms/amp/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/review-amds-269-rx-7... “AMD fails again: RX 7600 review” https://youtu.be/Yhoj2kfk-x0 https://youtu.be/Yhoj2kfk-x0

stcroixx 3y ago

By having no competition and no reason to aggressively innovate.