5 ms·

Why not 20K every year? Get rid of all government programs ( welfare, healthchare, social security, etc ) and replace it with a universal yearly $20K. The only

Why not 20K every year? Get rid of all government programs ( welfare, healthchare, social security, etc ) and replace it with a universal yearly $20K. The only downside is that it would collapse the war machine since no 18 year old will sign up for the military.

lotsoweiners 3y ago
Aren’t we currently experiencing inflation at least partially due to government stimulus handouts during Covid? I know there are multiple causes but free money certainly didn’t help. Also, I think it is a good idea to keep government programs means tested and separate. If you give people 20k, the number of people who should be feeding their kids with the money but instead bought “new rims” for their 2007 Honda Civic is going to be much greater than zero.
- admax88qqq 3y ago
  The problem is most means tested programs end up as poverty traps where people avoid making more money productively so they don't lose their welfare or disability.
xsmasher 3y ago
Some people are not equipped to handle that responsibly. They'll promise it to rent-a-center in perpetuity and still be hungry halfway through the month.
JimtheCoder 3y ago
"Why not 20K every year? Get rid of all government programs ( welfare, healthchare, social security, etc ) and replace it with a universal yearly $20K." Because next election cycle, some politician will set themselves apart by promising the 20k, plus a supplement for healthcare...and the whole circus begins again...
pcurve 3y ago
"welfare, healthchare, social security, etc" Healthcare: Some people get unlucky with genetic lottery and will require far more cost in care than others. Some type of universal coverage still needs to exist imho. Social security: Unfortunately, not everyone is good with money. Social security is a mechanism for balancing out and restributing wealth, but it's also an investing service for those who don't know how to. I'm not against some type of UBI, but there are some downsides with getting rid of existing programs. imho.
- jay_kyburz 3y ago
  I _am_ against UBI for exactly the reason you outline. We'll still need all the agencies and bureaucracy to help those who just need more help.
  - 6D794163636F756 3y ago
    I think you're right to an extent, but I think ubi could bridge the gap between necessary services and nice to have services. It could let someone who is on food stamps and housing assistance choose to upgrade one of those or for them to buy the technology needed to get their next job. There are pitfalls, but I think ubi could be a good way of allowing people to position themselves to no longer rely so heavily on other assistance programs or live a better life on their own terms if they can't
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      The general issue I’ve seen is that dismantling programs to pay for UBI just means spreading the butter really thin so that the basic income is a pittance. The US just doesn’t spend so much on social programs to make a UBI meaningful, and if we were going to raise taxes to do so why not just fund more targeted programs?
- goodbyesf 3y ago
  > Healthcare: Some people get unlucky with genetic lottery and will require far more cost in care than others. Some type of universal coverage still needs to exist imho. You can buy healthcare with 20K. > Social security: Unfortunately, not everyone is good with money. That's why it's 20K per year. Not a one time $2 million payment for the rest of your life. $20k more than the average social security payout.

lotsoweiners 3y ago

Aren’t we currently experiencing inflation at least partially due to government stimulus handouts during Covid? I know there are multiple causes but free money certainly didn’t help. Also, I think it is a good idea to keep government programs means tested and separate. If you give people 20k, the number of people who should be feeding their kids with the money but instead bought “new rims” for their 2007 Honda Civic is going to be much greater than zero.

admax88qqq 3y ago
The problem is most means tested programs end up as poverty traps where people avoid making more money productively so they don't lose their welfare or disability.

xsmasher 3y ago

Some people are not equipped to handle that responsibly. They'll promise it to rent-a-center in perpetuity and still be hungry halfway through the month.

JimtheCoder 3y ago

"Why not 20K every year? Get rid of all government programs ( welfare, healthchare, social security, etc ) and replace it with a universal yearly $20K." Because next election cycle, some politician will set themselves apart by promising the 20k, plus a supplement for healthcare...and the whole circus begins again...

pcurve 3y ago

"welfare, healthchare, social security, etc" Healthcare: Some people get unlucky with genetic lottery and will require far more cost in care than others. Some type of universal coverage still needs to exist imho. Social security: Unfortunately, not everyone is good with money. Social security is a mechanism for balancing out and restributing wealth, but it's also an investing service for those who don't know how to. I'm not against some type of UBI, but there are some downsides with getting rid of existing programs. imho.

jay_kyburz 3y ago
I _am_ against UBI for exactly the reason you outline. We'll still need all the agencies and bureaucracy to help those who just need more help.
- 6D794163636F756 3y ago
  I think you're right to an extent, but I think ubi could bridge the gap between necessary services and nice to have services. It could let someone who is on food stamps and housing assistance choose to upgrade one of those or for them to buy the technology needed to get their next job. There are pitfalls, but I think ubi could be a good way of allowing people to position themselves to no longer rely so heavily on other assistance programs or live a better life on their own terms if they can't
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    The general issue I’ve seen is that dismantling programs to pay for UBI just means spreading the butter really thin so that the basic income is a pittance. The US just doesn’t spend so much on social programs to make a UBI meaningful, and if we were going to raise taxes to do so why not just fund more targeted programs?
goodbyesf 3y ago
> Healthcare: Some people get unlucky with genetic lottery and will require far more cost in care than others. Some type of universal coverage still needs to exist imho. You can buy healthcare with 20K. > Social security: Unfortunately, not everyone is good with money. That's why it's 20K per year. Not a one time $2 million payment for the rest of your life. $20k more than the average social security payout.