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>Developers wishing to continue using their fine-tuned models beyond January 4, 2024 will need to fine-tune replacements atop the new base GPT-3 models (ada-002
by alpark3 3y ago
>Developers wishing to continue using their fine-tuned models beyond January 4, 2024 will need to fine-tune replacements atop the new base GPT-3 models (ada-002, babbage-002, curie-002, davinci-002), or newer models (gpt-3.5-turbo, gpt-4). Once this feature is available later this year, we will give priority access to GPT-3.5 Turbo and GPT-4 fine-tuning to users who previously fine-tuned older models. We acknowledge that migrating off of models that are fine-tuned on your own data is challenging. We will be providing support to users who previously fine-tuned models to make this transition as smooth as possible.
Wait, they're not letting you use your own fine-tuned models anymore? So anybody who paid for a fine-tuned model is just forced to repay the training tokens to fine-tune on top of the new censored models? Maybe I'm misunderstanding it.
- fnordpiglet 3y agoIf you don’t own the weights you don’t own anything. This is why open models are so crucial. I don’t understand any business who is building fine tuned models against closed models.
- reaperman 3y agoRight now the closed models are incredibly higher quality than the open models. They're useful as a stopgap for 1-2 years in hopes/expectation of open models reaching a point where they can be swapped in. It burns cash now, but in exchange you can grab more market share sooner while you're stuck using the expensive but high quality OpenAI models. It's not cost-effective, but it may be part of a valid business plan.
- ronsor 3y agoIf you're finetuning your own model, the closed models being "incredibly higher quality" is probably less relevant.
- claytonjy 3y agoThat's how we all want it to work, but the reality today is that GPT-4 is better at almost anything than a fine-tuned version of any other model. It's somewhat rare to have a task and good enough dataset that you can finetune something else to be close enough in quality to GPT-4 for your task.
- wongarsu 3y agoFinetuning a better model still yields better results than finetuning a worse model.
- fnordpiglet 3y agoThat should be a wake up call to every corporation pinning their business on OAI models. My experience thus far is no one is seeing a need to plan an exit from OAI, and the perception is “AI is magic and we aren’t magicians.” There needs to be a concerted effort to finance and tune high quality freely available models and tool chains asap. That said I think efficiencies will dramatically improve over the next few years and over investing now probably captures very little value beyond building internal competency - which doesn’t grow with anything but time and practice. The longer you depend on OAI, the longer you will depend on OAI past your point of profound regret.
- reaperman 3y ago> There needs to be a concerted effort to finance and tune high quality freely available models and tool chains asap. Absolutely. A large consortium of companies could each contribute 0.2-2% of the total cost and fund something much larger than OpenAI.
- yieldcrv 3y ago> I don’t understand any business who is building fine tuned models against closed models. Just sell access at a higher price than you get it Either directly, on on average based on your user stories
- r3trohack3r 3y ago> I don’t understand any business who is building fine tuned models against closed models Do you have any recommendations for good open models that businesses could use today? From what I've seen in the space, I suspect businesses are building fine tuned models against closed models because those are the only viable models to build a business model on top of. The quality of open models isn't competitive.
- cj 3y agoPSA: anyone working at a company with $50k+ of spend with AWS, reach out to your rep expressing interest in AI. You’ll be on a call with 6 solution architects and AI specialists in a matter of days. They’re incredibly knowledgeable and freely recommend non-AWS alternatives when the use case calls for it.
- dragonwriter 3y agoOwning weights is in a nebulous space right now, but if you don’t have custody of the weights and code to use them, you have nothing reliable, independent of whether the things you might wish to have are ownable (ownership is more about exclusion than ability to use, in any case.)
- fnordpiglet 3y agoYes. But the weights and instructions of how to use them to code can follow as we’ve seen. The key is ownership is bits on your machine not someone else’s. Better still on BitTorrent / ipfs:-)
- benlivengood 3y agoMy guess is that these businesses are also running inference on someone else's GPUs/TPUs so there isn't an existential advantage to owning the weights.
- flangola7 3y agoThey address that, OpenAI will cover the cost of re-training on the new models, and the old models don't discontinue until next year.
- simonw 3y agoDid they say they would cover the cost of fine-tuning again? I saw them say they would cover the cost of recalculating embeddings, but I didn't see the bit about fine-tuning costs. On fine-tuning: > We will be providing support to users who previously fine-tuned models to make this transition as smooth as possible. On embeddings: > We will cover the financial cost of users re-embedding content with these new models.
- BoorishBears 3y agoThat's because fine-tuning the new models isn't available yet. Based on the language it sounds like they'll do the same when that launches.
- btown 3y agoThis indicates to me that some of the old base models used architectures that were significantly more difficult to run at scale (or to ship around/load different weights at scale) - which is truly saying something, since they were running at incredible scale a year ago. There's probably a decade of potential papers from their optimizations alone (to say nothing of their devops innovations) that are still trade secrets.
- meghan_rain 3y agonot your weights, not your bitcoins
- londons_explore 3y agoThis tells me that either there were very few commercial users of finetuned models, or they need to decommission the infrastructure to free up GPU's for more valuable projects.
- eli 3y agoThe former seems very believable. And I bet a lot of the fine tuned models that are active are still part of prototypes or experiments. I assume if you reach out they throw some credits at you
- londons_explore 3y agoIf it really was a tiny number of users, they would publically make a really good offer - for example: "Unfortunately, you will need to retune your models on top of GPT-4. OpenAI will do this for you for free, and refund all money you paid tuning your original model, and offer the new model for the same price as the original model." The extra trust gained by seeing another customer treated that way easily pays for a few credits for a small number of users.
- lolinder 3y agoOpenAI probably doesn't feel the need to pay to win publicity right now—they've been in the spotlight for as long as LLMs have been a thing, and GPT-4 is far ahead of competitors' offerings.
- nimithryn 3y agoIt’s about trust - not publicity. Trust is hard to earn back once broken, and there will be multiple offerings eventually. For example, AWS was one of the first cloud providers. Now there are alternatives, but I still pick AWS because I trust them not to break my dependencies way more than, say, Google
- eli 3y agoYeah but that sets a precedent
- astrange 3y ago"Censored" is a funny term, because I've tried doing uncensored things on uncensored models, and they're much worse at it than GPT-3.5 in the API playground. Nothing's as censored as just being unable to do the task in the first place.
- yard2010 3y agoKeep in mind though, some of the generated text is against their guidelines, you will see a warning when you get there and be told it's "flagged" and you should use the moderation API. The chat API is nerfed to oblivion, good luke making it generate non PC text
- astrange 3y agoThat just means you don't have enough fetishes.
- npew 3y ago(I work at OpenAI) We're planning to cover the cost for fine-tuning replacement models. We're still working through the exact mechanics that will work best for customers, and will be reaching out to customers to get feedback on different approaches in the next few weeks.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y agoWhy does OpenAI demand your phone number, and a particular KIND of phone number at that? For example they won't accept VOIP numbers. I'm not about to give them my real phone number. It's a deal-breaker for many.
- jeromegv 3y agoSeems clear that it’s for bots. And they refuse voip numbers because it’s a hell of a lot easier to buy and generate hundreds of voip numbers.
- trolan 3y agoI signed up under my .edu to use the $18 credit for a school project and the phone # was all it took to know I was the same person.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y agoThat's fine. The question stands though.
- weird-eye-issue 3y agoUse 5sim.net. Easy. Don't make this so hard.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y agoNope. They block burners and workarounds.