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Yes, sorry for the confusion. I'd just rather have an API where the common things are easy, and the super powerful low-level optimizations are optional.

sounds 3y ago
There were several pushes to produce a "sane defaults" library that made vulkan a lot less verbose. OpenGL is exactly what you said, "an API where the common things are easy, and the super powerful low-level optimizations are optional."
- rcxdude 3y ago
  except the easy common things are very slow, and the optimizations which are basically required become a careful dance of understanding the underlying hardware interface anyway (without any real documentation) and figuring out how to map that onto the high-level interface.
m00x 3y ago
You could always just use a library that simplifies Vulkan or keep some skeleton apps around. When you're past all of the verbose set up, the actual meat of it isn't too bad.
bowsamic 3y ago
What happened is that Khronos Group banked on third parties writing OpenGL-esque "middleware libraries" that bridged the gap between the hopelessly complex Vulkan API and people who want to write simple 3D graphics. Unfortunately, Khronos learnt the hard way that you can't just expect people to do work for you without a sufficient incentive, since after all, OpenGL still exists for anyone who wishes to have an easy API for graphics programming, and anyone who doesn't want to do that just uses an engine or high-level graphics API. Of course I'm not saying that these libraries don't exist, but they haven't taken off in the way they expected
- zokier 3y ago
  > who wishes to have an easy API for graphics programming, and anyone who doesn't want to do that just uses an engine or high-level graphics API. I'm guessing this niche is just pretty small in commercial sense; most people probable end up just using UE/Unity/... as their graphics API.
  - bowsamic 3y ago
    I agree, so I think Khronos expected the open source community to fill in the gaps

sounds 3y ago

There were several pushes to produce a "sane defaults" library that made vulkan a lot less verbose. OpenGL is exactly what you said, "an API where the common things are easy, and the super powerful low-level optimizations are optional."

rcxdude 3y ago
except the easy common things are very slow, and the optimizations which are basically required become a careful dance of understanding the underlying hardware interface anyway (without any real documentation) and figuring out how to map that onto the high-level interface.

m00x 3y ago

You could always just use a library that simplifies Vulkan or keep some skeleton apps around. When you're past all of the verbose set up, the actual meat of it isn't too bad.

bowsamic 3y ago

What happened is that Khronos Group banked on third parties writing OpenGL-esque "middleware libraries" that bridged the gap between the hopelessly complex Vulkan API and people who want to write simple 3D graphics. Unfortunately, Khronos learnt the hard way that you can't just expect people to do work for you without a sufficient incentive, since after all, OpenGL still exists for anyone who wishes to have an easy API for graphics programming, and anyone who doesn't want to do that just uses an engine or high-level graphics API. Of course I'm not saying that these libraries don't exist, but they haven't taken off in the way they expected

zokier 3y ago
> who wishes to have an easy API for graphics programming, and anyone who doesn't want to do that just uses an engine or high-level graphics API. I'm guessing this niche is just pretty small in commercial sense; most people probable end up just using UE/Unity/... as their graphics API.
- bowsamic 3y ago
  I agree, so I think Khronos expected the open source community to fill in the gaps