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No, Elon does understand geometry — this author doesn’t understand the free market. On the rare occasion that the “public transit” busses sharing our roadways

No, Elon does understand geometry — this author doesn’t understand the free market. On the rare occasion that the “public transit” busses sharing our roadways are full, they are indeed very efficient. Unfortunately - these situations are rare. The rest of the time, other solutions are vastly more desirable to the public. Simultaneously, these huge, lumbering 90%-empty beasts pile up traffic behind them, forcing massive exhaust plumes from the unnecessarily idling traffic. Stop subsidizing sub-standard solutions, and let the transit-using public decide.

hooverd 3y ago
Alternatively, you could incentive people taking transit by making cars more expensive (by pricing in externalities).
- fooker 3y ago
  >(by pricing in externalities). In practice, this means someone pockets the change and nothing gets done about the so called externalities.
  - enraged_camel 3y ago
    What do you mean? Can you give examples?
    - fooker 3y ago
      Suppose you want to force people to drive less — you increase gas prices with a tax. Citing this extra tax, some lawmaker spends money on something completely irrelevant that was lobbied to them. Public transport is a fairly distant concern for most of them. Oil companies increase crude prices to get on the gravy train, so does every other entity in the industry. Car dealerships jack up prices because they want to maintain their profit levels. Meanwhile middle class people who rely on cars get effed.
      - hooverd 3y ago
        Nah, you do congestion pricing in cities where transit is feasible.
jcranmer 3y ago
You don't ride buses much do you? Of all the times I've ridden regular bus routes, there's only been one route where the bus being 90% empty would not be extremely atypical--and even then, that was only when I was picking up the bus during off-peak hours. More frequent have been the times where there being anything other than standing room available was the atypical situation. If you're in an urban environment at least as densely packed as, say, San Jose, then the bus system is likely to have actually quite substantial ridership. By the time you get to the kinds of dense urban environments of the standard major US cities (NYC, Chicago, DC, Philly, Boston), I quite assure that the buses are routinely packed. The story might be different if we're talking about, say, Bismarck. Furthermore, I should point out that if a bus is stopped "pil[ing] up traffic behind them", that's because it's letting passengers embark or disembark, which is a strong signal that the bus probably isn't 90% empty.
- josephcsible 3y ago
  > Of all the times I've ridden regular bus routes, there's only been one route where the bus being 90% empty would not be extremely atypical You're falling victim to the inspection paradox: https://towardsdatascience.com/the-inspection-paradox-is-everywhere-2ef1c2e9d709 https://towardsdatascience.com/the-inspection-paradox-is-eve...
  - Freedom2 3y ago
    Interesting. What evidence do you have to back up your claim that the user has fallen victim to this paradox?
    - josephcsible 3y ago
      Using your experience as a passenger to gauge how full buses usually are is about as straightforward of an example of that paradox as you could ask for. As an extreme example, imagine there are 10 bus routes, 9 of which are always empty and 1 of which is always full. If you surveyed every passenger, they'd tell you that 100% of the buses they've ever been on are full, but in reality, only 10% of the buses are.
Zigurd 3y ago
On-demand AVs will probably kill mass transit in the US. The poor will get the equivalent of EBT cards to ride, so there will be a social aspect to it. But framing it as some kind of Randian triumph ignores that there are places in the world where mass transit is very efficient because the cities are different. Private cars will be for the rich and should be taxed appropriately. Meeting your fellow citizen while riding an AV mini-bus will open your eyes to social diversity.
caditinpiscinam 3y ago
There are tons of real-world situations in which individuals, by making choices that benefit themselves, create a situation that is worse for everyone overall. It's basic microeconomics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

hooverd 3y ago

Alternatively, you could incentive people taking transit by making cars more expensive (by pricing in externalities).

fooker 3y ago
>(by pricing in externalities). In practice, this means someone pockets the change and nothing gets done about the so called externalities.
- enraged_camel 3y ago
  What do you mean? Can you give examples?
  - fooker 3y ago
    Suppose you want to force people to drive less — you increase gas prices with a tax. Citing this extra tax, some lawmaker spends money on something completely irrelevant that was lobbied to them. Public transport is a fairly distant concern for most of them. Oil companies increase crude prices to get on the gravy train, so does every other entity in the industry. Car dealerships jack up prices because they want to maintain their profit levels. Meanwhile middle class people who rely on cars get effed.
    - hooverd 3y ago
      Nah, you do congestion pricing in cities where transit is feasible.

jcranmer 3y ago

You don't ride buses much do you? Of all the times I've ridden regular bus routes, there's only been one route where the bus being 90% empty would not be extremely atypical--and even then, that was only when I was picking up the bus during off-peak hours. More frequent have been the times where there being anything other than standing room available was the atypical situation. If you're in an urban environment at least as densely packed as, say, San Jose, then the bus system is likely to have actually quite substantial ridership. By the time you get to the kinds of dense urban environments of the standard major US cities (NYC, Chicago, DC, Philly, Boston), I quite assure that the buses are routinely packed. The story might be different if we're talking about, say, Bismarck. Furthermore, I should point out that if a bus is stopped "pil[ing] up traffic behind them", that's because it's letting passengers embark or disembark, which is a strong signal that the bus probably isn't 90% empty.

josephcsible 3y ago
> Of all the times I've ridden regular bus routes, there's only been one route where the bus being 90% empty would not be extremely atypical You're falling victim to the inspection paradox: https://towardsdatascience.com/the-inspection-paradox-is-everywhere-2ef1c2e9d709 https://towardsdatascience.com/the-inspection-paradox-is-eve...
- Freedom2 3y ago
  Interesting. What evidence do you have to back up your claim that the user has fallen victim to this paradox?
  - josephcsible 3y ago
    Using your experience as a passenger to gauge how full buses usually are is about as straightforward of an example of that paradox as you could ask for. As an extreme example, imagine there are 10 bus routes, 9 of which are always empty and 1 of which is always full. If you surveyed every passenger, they'd tell you that 100% of the buses they've ever been on are full, but in reality, only 10% of the buses are.

Zigurd 3y ago

On-demand AVs will probably kill mass transit in the US. The poor will get the equivalent of EBT cards to ride, so there will be a social aspect to it. But framing it as some kind of Randian triumph ignores that there are places in the world where mass transit is very efficient because the cities are different. Private cars will be for the rich and should be taxed appropriately. Meeting your fellow citizen while riding an AV mini-bus will open your eyes to social diversity.

caditinpiscinam 3y ago

There are tons of real-world situations in which individuals, by making choices that benefit themselves, create a situation that is worse for everyone overall. It's basic microeconomics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons