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> You are not the user This is where you will find your true 10x'ers. The developer who is so intelligent and experienced that they can accurately emulate an e

> You are not the user This is where you will find your true 10x'ers. The developer who is so intelligent and experienced that they can accurately emulate an entire "level 1" user in their own brain for purposes of testing a UX/UI concept. Putting both a really clever design and a really stupid user into your head at the same time is very challenging. But, if you can figure out how to pull this off, you can rapidly arrive at designs that are intuitive for all without a bunch of painful iterations. I've definitely seen the 10x that can't do this. Their UI design concepts usually turn out to look like something from a 4x game (and not a 'casual' one like CIV5). A user interface that exactly 1 person could enjoy using. About as clever as it gets and equally as worthless. Try constraining the hell out of yourself next time you build something that a typical person would use (i.e. any B2C product). Ask things like "If I didn't know how to read, could I still find my way around this interface?". Clearly, this is too low a bar to effectively use some applications, but simply trying to aim in that direction over and over can help evaporate the more "clever" concepts in favor of your less skilled users.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago
Why is the developer responsible for UI design? I certainly think developers should be involved in UI design, but I don't think they should be the main decision makers in most cases, precisely because "putting both a really clever design and a really stupid user into your head at the same time is very challenging," and I wouldn't expect it to necessarily correlate with programming skill.
- bob1029 3y ago
  The developer must be fundamentally responsible for all aspects of the final delivered solution. Diffusion of responsibility will otherwise tend to lead the project towards a non-ideal user experience. If UI design is "someone else's problem", I might be tempted to take certain shortcuts at code time (e.g. assuming there is only 1 view of the data model - how could I know? Not my problem area). Not saying you can't employ a UI designer who does this full-time, but the final software product and the entire experience around it is still the developer's full responsibility. With this in mind, perhaps we'd like the developers to be more involved with UI design meetings? All of this gets me back to the front-end/back-end meme that seems to have emerged over the last decade. Same sort of problem. All you do with this "not my problem" game is make your own life harder the next iteration. So to be clear - I am not saying you have to do the whole product yourself, but I am saying that you need to care enough about it or it's going to turn out like shit. Writing software that people use is still decidedly an art form. Imagine paying to go to an art gallery filled with pieces created by artists who absolutely hate to make art.
  - jasmer 3y ago
    I would not put the needle that far over. The person responsible for the total user experience, and the PM are responsible for the overall design. The developer is not.
- preommr 3y ago
  > I wouldn't expect it to necessarily overlap with programming skill. What is programming skill? For loops and writing a recusion function? If you ever talk to a lawyer, they're not just robots that regurgitate the law, they can can give you good advice on mediation, and alternative means of resolving conflict. They'll aks you things like "are you sure you want to go through this, this is what this entails, etc." They don't just go "I only the know the law, I don't have a background in pschology, anthropology, sociology". If you're a salesperson, you should know something about the product you're selling and have some communication skills. They don't just go "I am only here to show you to the car we're selling, I don't have a communications degree, I don't know how to offer you a deal". Sometimes it feels like only in software are people so coddled that they think this stuff is normal. People will hire with leetcode as a strong signal and have stack ranking, and then somehow think that the streotypes of devs only being goot at logic puzzles and lacking human understanding are true.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
JimtheCoder 3y ago
"Ask things like "If I didn't know how to read, could I still find my way around this interface?". Clearly, this is too low a bar to effectively use some applications, but simply trying to aim in that direction over and over can help evaporate the more "clever" concepts in favor of your less skilled users." This is very useful for people who are developing UX/UIs for the older population. A quickly growing segment where a lot of the users want to do things like use tech to keep in touch with their families and grandkids from a nursing home and they may not be as sharp as the average user of tech products...
kwhitefoot 3y ago
Users are not stupid. They just don't share your world view.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago

Why is the developer responsible for UI design? I certainly think developers should be involved in UI design, but I don't think they should be the main decision makers in most cases, precisely because "putting both a really clever design and a really stupid user into your head at the same time is very challenging," and I wouldn't expect it to necessarily correlate with programming skill.

bob1029 3y ago
The developer must be fundamentally responsible for all aspects of the final delivered solution. Diffusion of responsibility will otherwise tend to lead the project towards a non-ideal user experience. If UI design is "someone else's problem", I might be tempted to take certain shortcuts at code time (e.g. assuming there is only 1 view of the data model - how could I know? Not my problem area). Not saying you can't employ a UI designer who does this full-time, but the final software product and the entire experience around it is still the developer's full responsibility. With this in mind, perhaps we'd like the developers to be more involved with UI design meetings? All of this gets me back to the front-end/back-end meme that seems to have emerged over the last decade. Same sort of problem. All you do with this "not my problem" game is make your own life harder the next iteration. So to be clear - I am not saying you have to do the whole product yourself, but I am saying that you need to care enough about it or it's going to turn out like shit. Writing software that people use is still decidedly an art form. Imagine paying to go to an art gallery filled with pieces created by artists who absolutely hate to make art.
- jasmer 3y ago
  I would not put the needle that far over. The person responsible for the total user experience, and the PM are responsible for the overall design. The developer is not.
preommr 3y ago
> I wouldn't expect it to necessarily overlap with programming skill. What is programming skill? For loops and writing a recusion function? If you ever talk to a lawyer, they're not just robots that regurgitate the law, they can can give you good advice on mediation, and alternative means of resolving conflict. They'll aks you things like "are you sure you want to go through this, this is what this entails, etc." They don't just go "I only the know the law, I don't have a background in pschology, anthropology, sociology". If you're a salesperson, you should know something about the product you're selling and have some communication skills. They don't just go "I am only here to show you to the car we're selling, I don't have a communications degree, I don't know how to offer you a deal". Sometimes it feels like only in software are people so coddled that they think this stuff is normal. People will hire with leetcode as a strong signal and have stack ranking, and then somehow think that the streotypes of devs only being goot at logic puzzles and lacking human understanding are true.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

JimtheCoder 3y ago

"Ask things like "If I didn't know how to read, could I still find my way around this interface?". Clearly, this is too low a bar to effectively use some applications, but simply trying to aim in that direction over and over can help evaporate the more "clever" concepts in favor of your less skilled users." This is very useful for people who are developing UX/UIs for the older population. A quickly growing segment where a lot of the users want to do things like use tech to keep in touch with their families and grandkids from a nursing home and they may not be as sharp as the average user of tech products...

kwhitefoot 3y ago

Users are not stupid. They just don't share your world view.