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Tea as Hepatoprotective Agent: A Revisit
- darkclouds 3y agoDo a few grams worth of beta alanine, say up to 10grams and then tell me if you want to drink black tea!
- jerry1979 3y agoWhat will happen if someone tries this?
- switchbak 3y agoI’ve experienced tingling sensations, like pins and needles, not sure if that’s what they’re referring to.
- darkclouds 3y agoThe paresthesia you refer to when taking beta alanine is much less intense than the paresthesia experienced if doing 500mgs of nicotinic acid. Side note. If anyone drops 500mg of nicotinic acid, the skin flushing effect and inflammation which can be likened to the sunburn effect, will be seen most where the skin is exposed to UV light because it rebinds the frayed strands of DNA in cells. Its not what I'm referring to though.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoTaking beta-alanine will increase Carnosine synthase activity and probably lead to a depletion of magnesium and/or manganese since they are the co-factors for the enzyme. So this effect will differ based on genetic and nutrition. https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/A5YM72/entry https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/A5YM72/entry
- frickinLasers 3y agoand the tea?
- darkclouds 3y agoIt will increase carnosine in the body, more if you exercise than are just sedentary, but beta alanine is concentrated in places like the olfactory bulb so will increase your sense of smell amongst other things, but its still not what I'm referring to. Side note: If the aim is to increase carnosine in the body, I'd do carnosine as its better absorbed than beta alanine according to some studies, and then there's the remyelinating effect of histidine on the nervous system amongst other things, which is beneficial for some types of mental acuity, useful if you want to be a stand up comedian or some other verbally quick witted individual.
- anigbrowl 3y agoWell, what are you referring to? People's time is valuable, and figuring out some chemical puzzle for your amusement doesn't seem like a good use of it.
- darkclouds 3y agoBeta Alanine and Bupropion will make you go off black tea, the beta alanine will make you throw up, the Bupropion will make you switch to green tea. Ergo, is black tea really healthy for you, despite being the most drunk form of tea? I think beta alanine could be used for addictive leaf based products, ie tea, cocaine and tobacco.
- anigbrowl 3y agoI guess I won't bother taking beta alanine then? I'm not sure how you conclude that ingesting something that disagrees with tea means that tea is bad. I used to drink more tea and now drink more water, perhaps because I exercise more which might raise beta alinine levels. But I haven't noticed any ill effects and greatly enjoy the large cup of tea I have at the end of my workout.
- LegitShady 3y agoI don’t know about how interacts with tea, but gym bro forums have talked about itching and anal itching in particular. Maybe the tea makes that worse? No idea.
- jsf01 3y agoWhat’s the connection between beta alanine and tea? Is it just the caffeine in the tea that causes some effect when they’re used in combination?
- frickinLasers 3y agoIt's been two hours, and still I have no idea what beta-alanine has to do with tea.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- gumby 3y agoI've been a dedicated tea drinker since my teens, so this is great news. OTOH what I worry about is oesophageal cancer. Not sure of the prevalence.
- azeirah 3y agoDon't know any stats from the top of my head, but I recall that oesophageal cancer is caused by drinking _hot_ tea, not by drinking tea per sé.
- crossroadsguy 3y agoNow this worried me. I love my tea — the milk tea without sugar. And I can’t drink it unless it’s simmering hot. Sometimes I reheat it if I forget about it and it became slightly cooler. Green tea/etc (ie without milk) however I can drink even ice cold.
- jemmyw 3y agoI usually cool my tea with a splash of milk. But I do then drink it very quickly at an elevated temperature.
- Cerium 3y agoAvoid drinking liquids hotter than 140 f. One interesting "test" - take a sip of the liquid, and it does not seem that hot, put your finger in your mouth with the liquid and your finger might feel too hot.
- karencarits 3y ago140 degrees Fahrenheit = 60 degrees Celsius
- simondotau 3y agoAs another data point, this is generally hotter than most “hot” water taps in your kitchen or bathroom.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoI have a Partial Purine nucleoside phosphorylase (PNP) deficiency. It is a primary immunodeficiency. I cannot drink tea, and green tea is the wqrst for me since catechins (primarily EGCG) inhibits the PNP enzyme[1] as do quite a few other "healthy" foods like curcumin. It is best to know yourself and if tea makes you feel worse it might not be good for you. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262327467_Natural_products_as_inhibitors_of_purine_nucleoside_phosphorylase_a_target_against_Plasmodium_spp https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262327467_Natural_p...
- et2o 3y agoThanks for sharing. I’m a doctor. If you don’t mind sharing, out of curiosity how were you diagnosed with this? Not one of the primary immunodeficiencies I see tested, but I’m not a medical geneticist or pediatrician.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoHey doc. Well, I had consistently low WBC counts (leukopenia), skin infections, sinus infections, lung infections (and nodules), as well as recurrent fungal infections. Doctors offered no explanation. In 2014 I had my genome run on 23andMe and through digging and getting a second genome run I confirmed that I was homozygous for rs1049564 (and other SNPs) in my PNP gene. I was finally able to push for a PNP activity test which revealed low activity. I do not think the doctors would have ever tested for this. Here is the paper that persuaded them to do the test: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Purine-nucleoside-phosphorylase-PNP-rs1049564-variant-enzyme-activity-and-mRNA_fig2_319408659 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Purine-nucleoside-phosph... Since it is only a partial deficiency it did not cause catastrophic effects as a child, but as I got older it became worse. Here is a paper talking about the partial deficiency: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32695102/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32695102/ I also have neurological issues (mood disorder) that I blame on the same deficiency.
- ricksunny 3y agoWow. I applaud this effort. Been working on studying pharmacogenetics / pharmacogenomics / toxicogenomics focused on phenols such as catechins in tea. (Activity 'C' of https://docs.google.com/document/d/11f2bzMRbAgCJyoaEmxXKVytl_RH2AbzCfxMXonIiMG0/edit?usp=drivesdk https://docs.google.com/document/d/11f2bzMRbAgCJyoaEmxXKVytl... ) Would love to understand how you researched this, as locating relevant research literature has been challenging. (updating my user page with contact)
- dredmorbius 3y agoMeta: I'd not realised that Sci-Hub was a permitted site on HN. It appears that it has been since at least 2019 looking at the site submission history link. I'm not in the least displeased to learn this.
- CodeSgt 3y agoJust curious, why did you think it wouldn’t be?
- fernly 3y ago"Sci-Hub is a shadow library website that provides free access to millions of research papers, without regard to copyright,[4] by bypassing publishers' paywalls in various ways." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci-Hub https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci-Hub
- anigbrowl 3y agoMany of us approve of that.
- dredmorbius 3y agoMany of us do, indeed. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33698018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33698018> <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20781277 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20781277> <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17652359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17652359> (The /r/dredmorbius links in the comments linked above may be seen at the Internet Archive, as that subreddit has been taken private in protest of Reddit's recent policy direction.)
- dredmorbius 3y agoI'd discussed HN's linking SciHub directly with dang back in 2016, at which time his response was "I think that degree of anthill-overturning would be past prudent." <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11984443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11984443> Apparently the anthill has been overturned for some time. No data on time/distance from prudent.
- discordance 3y ago“ Hepatoprotection or antihepatotoxicity is the ability of a chemical substance to prevent damage to the liver. This is opposite to hepatotoxicity.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatoprotection https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatoprotection
- Alex3917 3y agoInteresting, considering how many people get liver damage from taking green tea extract and EGCg.
- atomicnumber3 3y agoThe dose makes the poison I suppose. Also I wonder who drinks more water than those who drink it flavored by leaves? I wonder if just drinking a lot of water is part of the effect.
- jhawleypeters 3y agoNot really, unless one believes such extracts and tea leaves* are equivalent. Edit for pedantry reasons: *prepared as a beverage
- stefantalpalaru 3y ago[dead]
- voldacar 3y agoHow does the effect size compare to milk thistle?
- ekm2 3y agoBlack tea is consumed principally in Europe, North America, and North Africa. Totally left out East Africa,where Kenya is the world's 3rd largest producer of Tea,only a proportion of which gets exported.
- danans 3y agoAlso, northern India and Yunnan province of China say "Hi we also drink black tea".
- pmontra 3y agoAlso in Central Asia. They told me there: green tea in summer, black tea in winter. And also, we keep the good one for us, we sell the bad one to Europe, we grind the very bad one and sell it to Europe to make tea bags. Luckily I almost never use tea bags.
- lakomen 3y agoAnd that's why I never buy Chinese products
- WhereIsTheTruth 3y agoTea? - always organic (no pesticides) - never with plastic teabags (no microplastics)
- xs83 3y ago[flagged]
- laserbeam 3y agoThis is a weird thing to comment about, but maybe it's feedback for someone and might be informative. I love tea. I would love to read this article. But, the tall font is horrible, distracting and discouraging me to do so. This is probably the first time in my life that I closed a web page due to the font of the body text. (I have saved it for later is some readable format provided by my browser)
- laserbeam 3y agoEDIT. I retract my previous comment. The font was only unreadable on my phone (iOS), it's perfectly fine as I went to the website on a desktop.
- medimikka 3y agoIt is worth pointing out, that this meta research, put forward by a team of "alternative medicine" proponents at Mangalore, is of relatively weak evidentiary strength and has not been replicated or strengthened since 2019. Tea doesn't hurt, and there are some strong evidentiary ties of green tea extract in the easing of the effects of NAFLD, but generally it'd be dangerous to see it as a valid treatment option for viral Hepatitis or NAFLD effects.
- paviva 3y agoBeware that green tea supplements have been associated with very sever liver damage. Even though most survive, they often require prolonged intensive care, with attending complications, muscle wasting, etc. Good reference here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK547925/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK547925/
- srcreigh 3y agoRead this, seems A) rare and B) not clearly due to green tea extract. The data is basically anecdotal and there isn’t a lot of cases. And none of the cases were due to using green tea, they were herbal mixtures with many ingredients.
- paviva 3y agoIt is rare, and is probably due to a combination of green tea and weight loss. However, the effects are catastrophic, and it worth pointing out before someone decides to use tea extracts to "protect" their liver. There are more cases that appears through cursory review of the literature, as most go unreported/unpublished. I have seen one case myself, and the person barely survived.
- b800h 3y agoBrought to us by the Tea Marketing Board? Have to say I'm delighted that it will protect me from alcohol-induced damage. Back on the plonk it is then.
- lakomen 3y agoWhat's the bottom line or takeaway? This link opens a page that wants me to download a PDF, which I won't do.