7 ms·

A friend of mine is a prosecutor in a major metro and said they routinely issue tracking requests for a given license plate and that PRIVATE COMPANIES are doing

by mikece 3y ago

A friend of mine is a prosecutor in a major metro and said they routinely issue tracking requests for a given license plate and that PRIVATE COMPANIES are doing 75%+ of the tracking, not state or local agencies. These private companies will sell the info to anyone who is willing to pay for it and for any reason at all. This isn't a problem confined to the abortion debate, it's a problem connected to any and all issues you might care about.

alexpotato 3y ago
> PRIVATE COMPANIES are doing 75%+ of the tracking My family recently went to an amusement park. As we drove in, I saw what looked like a license plate reader camera on the inbound gate to the parking. On the way out, we pull up to pay at the automated gate kiosk and my wife says: "Oh wow! How did they know how long we've been here??" I answered: "Because they scanned our plate on the way in and now when we pulled into the exit gate" Part of me thought this was cool (automation!), part of me thought "well, there is no expectation of privacy since we are in public" and part of me thought "this is very big brother but done by private companies"
- theptip 3y ago
  I see absolutely nothing wrong or big-brother about such a system if the data stays on premises only until you leave (or maybe until the end of the day to give you in-and-out pricing privileges). On the other hand, if the data is being sold to a data aggregator that is troubling. We see lots of surprising things like this, for example weather apps selling your location data. This is why we need better data protection rights. GDPR has a lot of good ideas (though implementation was painful). CCPA should be strengthened. Ideally we’d get a federal law limiting data collection without consent. (The optimist in me thinks this could be bipartisan.)
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    Agreed, if we knew the data was 100% confined to the theme park and was impossible to escape, it's absolutely useful with no threat to personhood.
rasz 3y ago
All the repo guys are running LPR gear on their rigs. Lot of taxi fleets too.
- mikece 3y ago
  And all of them should be criminally charged for stalking.
  - local_crmdgeon 3y ago
    Why? Photos in public are First Amendment protected. You can just think things are creepy without being a crime
    - mikece 3y ago
      These aren't photos but collection of PII which is then sold. If I took a photo of you walking your dog and posted it to Instagram that's not even remotely the same as writing down your license plate number and selling it to someone wanting to track you.
      - chasd00 3y ago
        in the case of instagram isn't it exactly the same? Instagram is going to process the photo, find out who's in it, then their insta/FB account, and then use their association to you and ads you've clicked to try and figure out an ad to serve to them that's most likely to generate a click. edit: i guess the difference is you're not selling them the picture, you're providing it for free.
        jakelazaroff 3y ago
        I actually don't think Instagram should be allowed to target ads to me based on other people's photos in which I happen to appear.
      - singleshot_ 3y ago
        Well, it’s remotely similar in that there is absolutely no way either of those things is illegal…
Karstographer 3y ago
Doesn't the CCPA provide an effective mechanism to restrict private companies from doing this on an individual basis?
- hedora 3y ago
  Yes, you simply find the hidden license plate camera, then figure out who owns it (I suggest social engineering technical support lines with the serial number). At that point, you can write them a letter that includes a ton of your personal information (which they "require" to match your license plate number with their database records). At that point you have the right to ask them to delete their copy of the license plate record that they've certainly already sold on to a network of dozens of fly-by-night data brokers, malicious foreign governments, the police, and so on.
  - Karstographer 3y ago
    What they've already sold may already be out there, true, but more importantly the ccpa gives you the right to opt out of future collection. Shotgunning the request to the major players may not give 100% coverage, but I think it would at least reduce the amount of identifying information out there which seems like it would be better than status quo. I'm curious if anyone has tried this at all.
    - ang_cire 3y ago
      If too many people opt out, they just set up a new company and boom! No one has requested they get rid of the data or not collect it. Opt-in is the only way to make this work, and that's why it will never get passed.

by mikece 3y ago

alexpotato 3y ago

> PRIVATE COMPANIES are doing 75%+ of the tracking My family recently went to an amusement park. As we drove in, I saw what looked like a license plate reader camera on the inbound gate to the parking. On the way out, we pull up to pay at the automated gate kiosk and my wife says: "Oh wow! How did they know how long we've been here??" I answered: "Because they scanned our plate on the way in and now when we pulled into the exit gate" Part of me thought this was cool (automation!), part of me thought "well, there is no expectation of privacy since we are in public" and part of me thought "this is very big brother but done by private companies"

theptip 3y ago
I see absolutely nothing wrong or big-brother about such a system if the data stays on premises only until you leave (or maybe until the end of the day to give you in-and-out pricing privileges). On the other hand, if the data is being sold to a data aggregator that is troubling. We see lots of surprising things like this, for example weather apps selling your location data. This is why we need better data protection rights. GDPR has a lot of good ideas (though implementation was painful). CCPA should be strengthened. Ideally we’d get a federal law limiting data collection without consent. (The optimist in me thinks this could be bipartisan.)
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Agreed, if we knew the data was 100% confined to the theme park and was impossible to escape, it's absolutely useful with no threat to personhood.

rasz 3y ago

All the repo guys are running LPR gear on their rigs. Lot of taxi fleets too.

mikece 3y ago
And all of them should be criminally charged for stalking.
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  Why? Photos in public are First Amendment protected. You can just think things are creepy without being a crime
  - mikece 3y ago
    These aren't photos but collection of PII which is then sold. If I took a photo of you walking your dog and posted it to Instagram that's not even remotely the same as writing down your license plate number and selling it to someone wanting to track you.
    - chasd00 3y ago
      in the case of instagram isn't it exactly the same? Instagram is going to process the photo, find out who's in it, then their insta/FB account, and then use their association to you and ads you've clicked to try and figure out an ad to serve to them that's most likely to generate a click. edit: i guess the difference is you're not selling them the picture, you're providing it for free.
      - jakelazaroff 3y ago
        I actually don't think Instagram should be allowed to target ads to me based on other people's photos in which I happen to appear.
    - singleshot_ 3y ago
      Well, it’s remotely similar in that there is absolutely no way either of those things is illegal…

Karstographer 3y ago

Doesn't the CCPA provide an effective mechanism to restrict private companies from doing this on an individual basis?

hedora 3y ago
Yes, you simply find the hidden license plate camera, then figure out who owns it (I suggest social engineering technical support lines with the serial number). At that point, you can write them a letter that includes a ton of your personal information (which they "require" to match your license plate number with their database records). At that point you have the right to ask them to delete their copy of the license plate record that they've certainly already sold on to a network of dozens of fly-by-night data brokers, malicious foreign governments, the police, and so on.
- Karstographer 3y ago
  What they've already sold may already be out there, true, but more importantly the ccpa gives you the right to opt out of future collection. Shotgunning the request to the major players may not give 100% coverage, but I think it would at least reduce the amount of identifying information out there which seems like it would be better than status quo. I'm curious if anyone has tried this at all.
  - ang_cire 3y ago
    If too many people opt out, they just set up a new company and boom! No one has requested they get rid of the data or not collect it. Opt-in is the only way to make this work, and that's why it will never get passed.