5 ms·

An honest, basic question for HNers who are much more knowledgeable about this than I am: How much should I care about this? I hear a lot of talk about "forever

An honest, basic question for HNers who are much more knowledgeable about this than I am: How much should I care about this? I hear a lot of talk about "forever chemicals" in the news, but I have no idea what the literature really says about what these chemicals are and whether/why I should be worried about them. My prior here is that human-made industrial chemicals are probably not things I want in my water. But that's about as far as I'm able to go here without a prohibitive amount of research. Edit: As others here have pointed out, it would also be great to know what, if anything, an individual can do about this contamination.

zdragnar 3y ago
Concentration is usually the biggest concern- "the dose makes the poison", so to speak. Unfortunately, the "forever" moniker is earned because these chemicals don't readily break down. Bio-accumulation is inevitable, which makes it that much harder to determine what a "safe" level of exposure is. Even so, I don't think the jury is out yet on what the effects of exposure to many of them even are, though several seem to influence hormone levels at least.
- smallerfish 3y ago
  > Even so, I don't think the jury is out yet Just FYI, I believe that you mean "I think the jury is still out..." https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/the+jury+is+out https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/the+jury+is+out
  - bhelkey 3y ago
    Hmm, I suppose that the jury isn't out yet would imply that the trial is ongoing.
    - zdragnar 3y ago
      I appreciate the defense, but idioms are not something I am great at, and definitely goofed this one.
dataflow 3y ago
This probably won't answer your question, since the quantity you ingest is likely a key question, but I highly recommend reading it anyway: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-became-duponts-worst-nightmare.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-b...
NickM 3y ago
As an individual, you can donate blood regularly. There was a study done that found that repeated whole blood or plasma donations were both effective at reducing PFAS levels over time.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  That is fascinating. Is that true of toxins that accumulate in the body generally, or specific known classes? It never occurred to me that blood removal would be an effective method, but there is a certain logic to it. Although it also seems like you'd have to do it an awful number of times to make a difference.
  - NickM 3y ago
    Is that true of toxins that accumulate in the body generally, or specific known classes? I don't know, I'm definitely no expert in this area, and haven't looked for any similar studies for other toxins, so I'm not sure if other similar research has been done.
- fhsm 3y ago
  That’s interesting. I’m having a hard time turning up the article. Any chance you’ve got at your fingertips?
  - NickM 3y ago
    I can't find a public link to the actual paper, but here's an article that covered the research and summarizes the findings: https://www.aabb.org/news-resources/news/article/2022/04/26/regular-blood-or-plasma-donation-may-reduce-pfas-levels-in-blood-serum https://www.aabb.org/news-resources/news/article/2022/04/26/...
    - fhsm 3y ago
      Thanks. For any others the ref is https://doi.org/10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2022.6257 https://doi.org/10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2022.6257
deleted 3y ago
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zdragnar 3y ago

Concentration is usually the biggest concern- "the dose makes the poison", so to speak. Unfortunately, the "forever" moniker is earned because these chemicals don't readily break down. Bio-accumulation is inevitable, which makes it that much harder to determine what a "safe" level of exposure is. Even so, I don't think the jury is out yet on what the effects of exposure to many of them even are, though several seem to influence hormone levels at least.

smallerfish 3y ago
> Even so, I don't think the jury is out yet Just FYI, I believe that you mean "I think the jury is still out..." https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/the+jury+is+out https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/the+jury+is+out
- bhelkey 3y ago
  Hmm, I suppose that the jury isn't out yet would imply that the trial is ongoing.
  - zdragnar 3y ago
    I appreciate the defense, but idioms are not something I am great at, and definitely goofed this one.

dataflow 3y ago

This probably won't answer your question, since the quantity you ingest is likely a key question, but I highly recommend reading it anyway: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-became-duponts-worst-nightmare.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-b...

NickM 3y ago

As an individual, you can donate blood regularly. There was a study done that found that repeated whole blood or plasma donations were both effective at reducing PFAS levels over time.

crazygringo 3y ago
That is fascinating. Is that true of toxins that accumulate in the body generally, or specific known classes? It never occurred to me that blood removal would be an effective method, but there is a certain logic to it. Although it also seems like you'd have to do it an awful number of times to make a difference.
- NickM 3y ago
  Is that true of toxins that accumulate in the body generally, or specific known classes? I don't know, I'm definitely no expert in this area, and haven't looked for any similar studies for other toxins, so I'm not sure if other similar research has been done.
fhsm 3y ago
That’s interesting. I’m having a hard time turning up the article. Any chance you’ve got at your fingertips?
- NickM 3y ago
  I can't find a public link to the actual paper, but here's an article that covered the research and summarizes the findings: https://www.aabb.org/news-resources/news/article/2022/04/26/regular-blood-or-plasma-donation-may-reduce-pfas-levels-in-blood-serum https://www.aabb.org/news-resources/news/article/2022/04/26/...
  - fhsm 3y ago
    Thanks. For any others the ref is https://doi.org/10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2022.6257 https://doi.org/10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2022.6257

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]