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I think the start of your reply is the bad faith they’re calling out — as that’s obviously not what they said. They simply prioritize their well-being and not

I think the start of your reply is the bad faith they’re calling out — as that’s obviously not what they said. They simply prioritize their well-being and not being vilified over the social causes you view as $very_important; and I’d suggest that since you bring up issues such as minority rights, you examine why you think they should accept being othered and vilified, when clearly you object to that behavior in other contexts. Why is that particular example of social abuse something they need to “sit down and shut up” about?

tombert 3y ago
I don't know why you put "sit down and shut up" in quotes when I very decidedly (and purposefully) didn't say that.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  Because I’m paraphrasing your reply, which aligns with that mentality. You didn’t explicitly say that because you know your own behavior is inappropriate — and pretend to condemn it in other contexts. But Democrats are commonly hypocritical — eg, claiming to protect minority rights while being frothing mad they’re told they can’t use 1950s arguments about “too many Asians and Jews” to engage in systemic racism at universities.
  - tombert 3y ago
    Ok, but quotes tend to imply something literal, or nearly-literal, and it's not something I said, nor did I imply it, at least not intentionally. I've personally always hated when certain groups are "not allowed" to have an opinion on given topics, for whatever reason, and I have pretty actively said as much when people have told others to "sit down and shut up", so in your particular case you're responding to a straw man and assigning attributes to me that are not true. EDIT: You edited your response after the fact and didn't disclose that. I'm responding to your edits now. > You didn’t explicitly say that because you know your own behavior is inappropriate — and pretend to condemn it in other contexts. Do I know my own behavior is inappropriate? What behavior is that exactly? > But Democrats are commonly hypocritical — eg, claiming to protect minority rights while being frothing mad they’re told they can’t use 1950s arguments about “too many Asians and Jews” to engage in systemic racism at universities. I have very mixed feelings in regards to the way that universities do their recruiting, and even in regards to the recent supreme court decision. Again, you're assigning labels to me that don't really apply. I tend to vote left, so I guess it's fair to lump me in with Democrats in a consequentialist sense.
    - zmgsabst 3y ago
      > when I very decidedly (and purposefully) didn't say that I think perhaps the reason you had that thought of writing it explicitly was because it was the mentality behind your entire comment. Ie, it was what you wanted to write; but you knew that was wrong, so you made a bad faith personal attack instead. (The one I called out.) But the purpose of that bad faith reply is to shame them into sitting down and shutting up about being othered and vilified. Edit: > I tend to vote left, so I guess it's fair to lump me in with Democrats in a consequentialist sense. I’m applying your standard: You support institutional Asian hate in the same sense that the person you replied to supports the things you accused them of supporting.
      - tombert 3y ago
        I really think that you're prescribing stuff to me based on stereotypes you have in regards to other lefties. That's fair enough, I do that sometimes as well, but I really just think you're wrong. I do not agree with the statement "sit down and shut up" in really any regard.
        zmgsabst 3y ago
        Then as I originally said, perhaps you should consider the motivations behind your original reply — for the reasons I articulated. If you don’t think you support institutional Asian hate by voting for Democrats, why would you make the accusations you did? What is the motivation?
        tombert 3y ago
        I think you could make an argument that you're responsible for the "full package" of the politician you vote for. That's why I conceded that it might be fair enough to lump me in with that group. I also didn't make "accusations", I said that I thought it was bizarre that someone would change their political positions just because someone was mean to them. I stand by that...I think that's a weird thing to do. If Bernie Sanders personally sent me a message saying "Tombert is a real douchebag", I'm not going to suddenly start going to MAGA rallies, because my political opinions aren't about people liking me.

tombert 3y ago

I don't know why you put "sit down and shut up" in quotes when I very decidedly (and purposefully) didn't say that.

zmgsabst 3y ago
Because I’m paraphrasing your reply, which aligns with that mentality. You didn’t explicitly say that because you know your own behavior is inappropriate — and pretend to condemn it in other contexts. But Democrats are commonly hypocritical — eg, claiming to protect minority rights while being frothing mad they’re told they can’t use 1950s arguments about “too many Asians and Jews” to engage in systemic racism at universities.
- tombert 3y ago
  Ok, but quotes tend to imply something literal, or nearly-literal, and it's not something I said, nor did I imply it, at least not intentionally. I've personally always hated when certain groups are "not allowed" to have an opinion on given topics, for whatever reason, and I have pretty actively said as much when people have told others to "sit down and shut up", so in your particular case you're responding to a straw man and assigning attributes to me that are not true. EDIT: You edited your response after the fact and didn't disclose that. I'm responding to your edits now. > You didn’t explicitly say that because you know your own behavior is inappropriate — and pretend to condemn it in other contexts. Do I know my own behavior is inappropriate? What behavior is that exactly? > But Democrats are commonly hypocritical — eg, claiming to protect minority rights while being frothing mad they’re told they can’t use 1950s arguments about “too many Asians and Jews” to engage in systemic racism at universities. I have very mixed feelings in regards to the way that universities do their recruiting, and even in regards to the recent supreme court decision. Again, you're assigning labels to me that don't really apply. I tend to vote left, so I guess it's fair to lump me in with Democrats in a consequentialist sense.
  - zmgsabst 3y ago
    > when I very decidedly (and purposefully) didn't say that I think perhaps the reason you had that thought of writing it explicitly was because it was the mentality behind your entire comment. Ie, it was what you wanted to write; but you knew that was wrong, so you made a bad faith personal attack instead. (The one I called out.) But the purpose of that bad faith reply is to shame them into sitting down and shutting up about being othered and vilified. Edit: > I tend to vote left, so I guess it's fair to lump me in with Democrats in a consequentialist sense. I’m applying your standard: You support institutional Asian hate in the same sense that the person you replied to supports the things you accused them of supporting.
    - tombert 3y ago
      I really think that you're prescribing stuff to me based on stereotypes you have in regards to other lefties. That's fair enough, I do that sometimes as well, but I really just think you're wrong. I do not agree with the statement "sit down and shut up" in really any regard.
      - zmgsabst 3y ago
        Then as I originally said, perhaps you should consider the motivations behind your original reply — for the reasons I articulated. If you don’t think you support institutional Asian hate by voting for Democrats, why would you make the accusations you did? What is the motivation?
        tombert 3y ago
        I think you could make an argument that you're responsible for the "full package" of the politician you vote for. That's why I conceded that it might be fair enough to lump me in with that group. I also didn't make "accusations", I said that I thought it was bizarre that someone would change their political positions just because someone was mean to them. I stand by that...I think that's a weird thing to do. If Bernie Sanders personally sent me a message saying "Tombert is a real douchebag", I'm not going to suddenly start going to MAGA rallies, because my political opinions aren't about people liking me.