4 ms·

So because some people were mean to you, you just changed all your values about gay marriage, climate change, social welfare, etc? Honestly I actually don't li

So because some people were mean to you, you just changed all your values about gay marriage, climate change, social welfare, etc? Honestly I actually don't like the "tax the rich to make them pay their fair share" narrative either because it implies that taxes are what pays for the social programs, which is reductive at best (at least with current US monetary theory). I don't make more than $400,000/year [1], but I have traditionally done pretty well in total comp, and I still vote left because I my viewpoints don't change just because some people were to demonize me. Also, wasn't Elizabeth Warren's "pay their fair share" tax for people making like more than $10 million? [1] I actually make $0/year right now due to layoffs.

zmgsabst 3y ago
I think the start of your reply is the bad faith they’re calling out — as that’s obviously not what they said. They simply prioritize their well-being and not being vilified over the social causes you view as $very_important; and I’d suggest that since you bring up issues such as minority rights, you examine why you think they should accept being othered and vilified, when clearly you object to that behavior in other contexts. Why is that particular example of social abuse something they need to “sit down and shut up” about?
- tombert 3y ago
  I don't know why you put "sit down and shut up" in quotes when I very decidedly (and purposefully) didn't say that.
  - zmgsabst 3y ago
    Because I’m paraphrasing your reply, which aligns with that mentality. You didn’t explicitly say that because you know your own behavior is inappropriate — and pretend to condemn it in other contexts. But Democrats are commonly hypocritical — eg, claiming to protect minority rights while being frothing mad they’re told they can’t use 1950s arguments about “too many Asians and Jews” to engage in systemic racism at universities.
    - tombert 3y ago
      Ok, but quotes tend to imply something literal, or nearly-literal, and it's not something I said, nor did I imply it, at least not intentionally. I've personally always hated when certain groups are "not allowed" to have an opinion on given topics, for whatever reason, and I have pretty actively said as much when people have told others to "sit down and shut up", so in your particular case you're responding to a straw man and assigning attributes to me that are not true. EDIT: You edited your response after the fact and didn't disclose that. I'm responding to your edits now. > You didn’t explicitly say that because you know your own behavior is inappropriate — and pretend to condemn it in other contexts. Do I know my own behavior is inappropriate? What behavior is that exactly? > But Democrats are commonly hypocritical — eg, claiming to protect minority rights while being frothing mad they’re told they can’t use 1950s arguments about “too many Asians and Jews” to engage in systemic racism at universities. I have very mixed feelings in regards to the way that universities do their recruiting, and even in regards to the recent supreme court decision. Again, you're assigning labels to me that don't really apply. I tend to vote left, so I guess it's fair to lump me in with Democrats in a consequentialist sense.
      - zmgsabst 3y ago
        > when I very decidedly (and purposefully) didn't say that I think perhaps the reason you had that thought of writing it explicitly was because it was the mentality behind your entire comment. Ie, it was what you wanted to write; but you knew that was wrong, so you made a bad faith personal attack instead. (The one I called out.) But the purpose of that bad faith reply is to shame them into sitting down and shutting up about being othered and vilified. Edit: > I tend to vote left, so I guess it's fair to lump me in with Democrats in a consequentialist sense. I’m applying your standard: You support institutional Asian hate in the same sense that the person you replied to supports the things you accused them of supporting.
        tombert 3y ago
        I really think that you're prescribing stuff to me based on stereotypes you have in regards to other lefties. That's fair enough, I do that sometimes as well, but I really just think you're wrong. I do not agree with the statement "sit down and shut up" in really any regard.

zmgsabst 3y ago

I think the start of your reply is the bad faith they’re calling out — as that’s obviously not what they said. They simply prioritize their well-being and not being vilified over the social causes you view as $very_important; and I’d suggest that since you bring up issues such as minority rights, you examine why you think they should accept being othered and vilified, when clearly you object to that behavior in other contexts. Why is that particular example of social abuse something they need to “sit down and shut up” about?

tombert 3y ago
I don't know why you put "sit down and shut up" in quotes when I very decidedly (and purposefully) didn't say that.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  Because I’m paraphrasing your reply, which aligns with that mentality. You didn’t explicitly say that because you know your own behavior is inappropriate — and pretend to condemn it in other contexts. But Democrats are commonly hypocritical — eg, claiming to protect minority rights while being frothing mad they’re told they can’t use 1950s arguments about “too many Asians and Jews” to engage in systemic racism at universities.
  - tombert 3y ago
    Ok, but quotes tend to imply something literal, or nearly-literal, and it's not something I said, nor did I imply it, at least not intentionally. I've personally always hated when certain groups are "not allowed" to have an opinion on given topics, for whatever reason, and I have pretty actively said as much when people have told others to "sit down and shut up", so in your particular case you're responding to a straw man and assigning attributes to me that are not true. EDIT: You edited your response after the fact and didn't disclose that. I'm responding to your edits now. > You didn’t explicitly say that because you know your own behavior is inappropriate — and pretend to condemn it in other contexts. Do I know my own behavior is inappropriate? What behavior is that exactly? > But Democrats are commonly hypocritical — eg, claiming to protect minority rights while being frothing mad they’re told they can’t use 1950s arguments about “too many Asians and Jews” to engage in systemic racism at universities. I have very mixed feelings in regards to the way that universities do their recruiting, and even in regards to the recent supreme court decision. Again, you're assigning labels to me that don't really apply. I tend to vote left, so I guess it's fair to lump me in with Democrats in a consequentialist sense.
    - zmgsabst 3y ago
      > when I very decidedly (and purposefully) didn't say that I think perhaps the reason you had that thought of writing it explicitly was because it was the mentality behind your entire comment. Ie, it was what you wanted to write; but you knew that was wrong, so you made a bad faith personal attack instead. (The one I called out.) But the purpose of that bad faith reply is to shame them into sitting down and shutting up about being othered and vilified. Edit: > I tend to vote left, so I guess it's fair to lump me in with Democrats in a consequentialist sense. I’m applying your standard: You support institutional Asian hate in the same sense that the person you replied to supports the things you accused them of supporting.
      - tombert 3y ago
        I really think that you're prescribing stuff to me based on stereotypes you have in regards to other lefties. That's fair enough, I do that sometimes as well, but I really just think you're wrong. I do not agree with the statement "sit down and shut up" in really any regard.