3 ms·

English determines exclusive OR, inclusive OR, and AND using context. This kind of ambiguity really drives us logical people nuts. :)

tomxor 3y ago
Thanks. I feel less alone now :)
Shrezzing 3y ago
We do the same with "up to" too. I have no idea how non-native speakers learn the English language. > Count up to 20 Is a prompt to count up to, and include, twenty. > Describe the events up to WWII Is a prompt to describe the events leading up to WWII, but leave out the war itself.
- adrianmsmith 3y ago
  I'm not sure if I agree with that. > Describe the events up to WWII For me that sounds like you would include WWII, just like if you counted up to 20. > Describe the events leading up to WWII Then I would agree, that would be "explain the set of events on which WWII depended" so that would include all prior events which are relevant to WWII, without including WWII itself, but also missing out any events not relevant to WWII, so not e.g. "OK so the ice age was before WWII, so let's start there". (Native English speaker, from UK).
- kayodelycaon 3y ago
  In my experience, spoken English is relatively fault tolerant, which probably makes speaking it less challenging than it first appears. To become proficient, you slowly learn the rules. Not sure how this compares to other languages. I’ve only observed other people learning the language. As a typical American, I only speak American English. If you mentioned the boot of a car, I’d probably ask if you meant the tires. ;)
- qzw 3y ago
  I think the difference in this case is that we naturally parenthesize the sentences differently: (Count up) to 20. and Describe the events (up to) WWII. Because "count up" and "count down" have precedence over "up to" in the linguistic order of operations, so to speak. There's of course no "describe up" or "events up", so "up to" has precedence in the second case.
hecatia 3y ago
No one is forbidden to ask to clarify :)

tomxor 3y ago

Thanks. I feel less alone now :)

Shrezzing 3y ago

We do the same with "up to" too. I have no idea how non-native speakers learn the English language. > Count up to 20 Is a prompt to count up to, and include, twenty. > Describe the events up to WWII Is a prompt to describe the events leading up to WWII, but leave out the war itself.

adrianmsmith 3y ago
I'm not sure if I agree with that. > Describe the events up to WWII For me that sounds like you would include WWII, just like if you counted up to 20. > Describe the events leading up to WWII Then I would agree, that would be "explain the set of events on which WWII depended" so that would include all prior events which are relevant to WWII, without including WWII itself, but also missing out any events not relevant to WWII, so not e.g. "OK so the ice age was before WWII, so let's start there". (Native English speaker, from UK).
kayodelycaon 3y ago
In my experience, spoken English is relatively fault tolerant, which probably makes speaking it less challenging than it first appears. To become proficient, you slowly learn the rules. Not sure how this compares to other languages. I’ve only observed other people learning the language. As a typical American, I only speak American English. If you mentioned the boot of a car, I’d probably ask if you meant the tires. ;)
qzw 3y ago
I think the difference in this case is that we naturally parenthesize the sentences differently: (Count up) to 20. and Describe the events (up to) WWII. Because "count up" and "count down" have precedence over "up to" in the linguistic order of operations, so to speak. There's of course no "describe up" or "events up", so "up to" has precedence in the second case.

hecatia 3y ago

No one is forbidden to ask to clarify :)