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Is HN “free?” How heavy of a hand do the mods have here? (I genuinely don’t know the answer to that question.)

giraffe_lady 3y ago
It's very heavy in terms of tone, less in content. Definitely workable for nazis if they're careful. You can advocate eugenics and genocide-lite if you're polite and abstract enough. You're more likely to get in trouble for calling someone a nazi than you are for promoting nazi policies, as long as you don't use any slurs.
- atlantic 3y ago
  Could you clarify the term "nazis"? Presumably, you don't mean a member of the German National Socialist party, which was dissolved in 1945. But if you mean "people whose views I disagree with", then perhaps you could be a little more specific.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    You notice there how I was specific about "nazi policies" right? It's to avoid a discussion like this one. I don't care about party affiliation per se, I am talking about advocating specific policies and worldviews. Things like ethnonationism, eugenics, categorizing certain minorities as inherently criminal, white natalism: things that, if you could present them to a 1945-style straw nazi they'd say "yup that's us." And all that aside, you know that people still self identify as nazis right? It's not preposterous that they show up here. They have jobs and kids and hobbies and professional aspirations, and if a chance to talk about the degeneracy of society re: immigration comes on the tech forum, hey, they know also how to slide into that conversation without saying anything too crass. And yes, you could elide all that as "people I disagree with" if you're devoted to being particularly sloppy. Because I do disagree with them, and don't want them here? Is that not the case for you?
    - atlantic 3y ago
      > And yes, you could elide all that as "people I disagree with" if you're devoted to being particularly sloppy. Because I do disagree with them, and don't want them here? Is that not the case for you? No. I see no value in debating with people who agree with me. Neither party will learn anything new. So I welcome disagreement, as long as there is genuine openness to debate.
    - hiatus 3y ago
      > Because I do disagree with them, and don't want them here? Is that not the case for you So you would prefer that they congregate in their own private echo chambers, rather than come to a place with differing ideals where their own convictions could be challenged? How can we ever bridge the gap if we push people into their own bubbles?
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
        Yes! Holy shit yes! They are not a project for you to work on they are a force to be stopped. Debating nazi policies in public forums is already a win for the nazis. You don't debate people out of these views you prevent them accomplishing them. Bridging the gap is some liberal bullshit. If they want to repent and rejoin polite society the path is well established. These people will kill you if you stand in their way. The fact that you don't perceive that as a real threat means you are not standing in their way. Debating their talking points in their venue of choice is not standing in their way; you tell because they're happy to do it.
        hiatus 3y ago
        I think you take it for granted that people are so set in their ways without realizing that all ideology is on a spectrum. Can you convince the most hardcore ideological adherent? Likely not—but someone on the fence can be swayed. And before you cast aspersions on fence-sitters, remember that Nazis were regular German citizens first. Racists aren't born, they are molded. I don't anticipate I'll change your mind but I think it's worth stating nonetheless.
HEmanZ 3y ago
The mods have a heavy hand, stuff gets loudly or silently removed all of the time. Dang seems to work full time at it, and I suspect he’s not the only one on the team doing so
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

It's very heavy in terms of tone, less in content. Definitely workable for nazis if they're careful. You can advocate eugenics and genocide-lite if you're polite and abstract enough. You're more likely to get in trouble for calling someone a nazi than you are for promoting nazi policies, as long as you don't use any slurs.

atlantic 3y ago
Could you clarify the term "nazis"? Presumably, you don't mean a member of the German National Socialist party, which was dissolved in 1945. But if you mean "people whose views I disagree with", then perhaps you could be a little more specific.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  You notice there how I was specific about "nazi policies" right? It's to avoid a discussion like this one. I don't care about party affiliation per se, I am talking about advocating specific policies and worldviews. Things like ethnonationism, eugenics, categorizing certain minorities as inherently criminal, white natalism: things that, if you could present them to a 1945-style straw nazi they'd say "yup that's us." And all that aside, you know that people still self identify as nazis right? It's not preposterous that they show up here. They have jobs and kids and hobbies and professional aspirations, and if a chance to talk about the degeneracy of society re: immigration comes on the tech forum, hey, they know also how to slide into that conversation without saying anything too crass. And yes, you could elide all that as "people I disagree with" if you're devoted to being particularly sloppy. Because I do disagree with them, and don't want them here? Is that not the case for you?
  - atlantic 3y ago
    > And yes, you could elide all that as "people I disagree with" if you're devoted to being particularly sloppy. Because I do disagree with them, and don't want them here? Is that not the case for you? No. I see no value in debating with people who agree with me. Neither party will learn anything new. So I welcome disagreement, as long as there is genuine openness to debate.
  - hiatus 3y ago
    > Because I do disagree with them, and don't want them here? Is that not the case for you So you would prefer that they congregate in their own private echo chambers, rather than come to a place with differing ideals where their own convictions could be challenged? How can we ever bridge the gap if we push people into their own bubbles?
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      Yes! Holy shit yes! They are not a project for you to work on they are a force to be stopped. Debating nazi policies in public forums is already a win for the nazis. You don't debate people out of these views you prevent them accomplishing them. Bridging the gap is some liberal bullshit. If they want to repent and rejoin polite society the path is well established. These people will kill you if you stand in their way. The fact that you don't perceive that as a real threat means you are not standing in their way. Debating their talking points in their venue of choice is not standing in their way; you tell because they're happy to do it.
      - hiatus 3y ago
        I think you take it for granted that people are so set in their ways without realizing that all ideology is on a spectrum. Can you convince the most hardcore ideological adherent? Likely not—but someone on the fence can be swayed. And before you cast aspersions on fence-sitters, remember that Nazis were regular German citizens first. Racists aren't born, they are molded. I don't anticipate I'll change your mind but I think it's worth stating nonetheless.

HEmanZ 3y ago

The mods have a heavy hand, stuff gets loudly or silently removed all of the time. Dang seems to work full time at it, and I suspect he’s not the only one on the team doing so

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]