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This is super-important. Sometimes the grass is greener on this side of the fence. VCs want to get you to grow rapidly because the only way to move the needle

This is super-important. Sometimes the grass is greener on this side of the fence. VCs want to get you to grow rapidly because the only way to move the needle on their returns is to blow the roof off. However as a founder, this is proof you can have a great business and a great quality of life by keeping costs relatively low, the team relatively small, just cranking out code and having fun.

ghaff 3y ago
As a founder you probably don’t get wealthy either and a lot aren’t really satisfied with a $150k/yr total comp/benefits for their successful lifestyle business.
- crystalgurl 3y ago
  It was pretty nice to exit my startup for hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, I don’t think I’d like to settle for $150k. YMMV, but I suppose a lot of folks are taking a calculated risk and swinging for the fences. More power to em, if you prefer software be a certain way write it yourself.
  - ndiddy 3y ago
    Agreed, sure I fucked over my customers after my startup was bought by Google, but I didn't really care because I was able to afford three yachts. I didn't even bother writing the shutdown message myself, I paid some dude on Fiverr to do it. Maybe 150k is fine if you're willing to settle for an above-ground pool in some shithole state in the Midwest, but if you want to spend your time where the true work happens, and collaborate with other innovators and founders in the only place that matters (bay area) you have to set your sights a bit higher.
    - crystalgurl 3y ago
      Humans have agency. If you enter into an agreement for software at a particular price (especially $0) that’s on you.
- coldpie 3y ago
  Imagine not being "satisfied" with a ~85th percentile wage[1]. Anyone who earns more than $150k/yr should be forced to spend 6 months every 5 years working a minimum wage retail job. They can keep earning their normal salary in escrow until they're done with their "get some damn perspective" temp job. [1] https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...
  - sib 3y ago
    I think most of the founders on HN are far above the 85th percentile in intelligence (let's not get into the philosophical arguments about it), so why would they be satisfied with that?
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      Because, being over 85th percentile in intelligence, they would be more likely than average to realize that the marginal impact of income on experienced utility declines sharply the higher you go on the income distribution. (Especially if they’ve experienced life at a variety of income levels, including some near the 85th percentile.)
      - sib 3y ago
        Marginal impact decreases, but the absolute impact is still positive... And the marginal impact is still quite high at the 85th percentile of income because the income distribution is very skewed (the absolute dollar difference from 85th percentile to 99th percentile, where most HN / YC founders probably are on the intelligence scale, is probably much greater than the absolute dollar difference from 15th to 29th percentile, as an example).
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I assume someone running a very successful lifestyle business of this sort 1) Probably had a pretty good chance of making nothing at all or even lost money and 2) Could make more money with benefits etc. if they just took a job at a big company. So, yes, they’ve done pretty well but they took a risk and still probably didn’t come close to maximizing comp even they had a rather good outcome. And I just threw out the $150k number because it’s a very good outcome. Could just as easily be something a lot lower including negative.
- mesoman 3y ago
  As a co-founder, I'd say you can get wealthy or at least comfortable. But, we started with two people. At some point we needed funding. That put us on a track of angel investors, VC's, and a cycle acquisition, buyback, funding, acquisition, buyback, etc. As the techie guy, I found that tiring and distracting. When we changed from software as a product to SAAS, it got a lot less fun. When we grew to 2000 employees (mostly non-tech), the company was a pain. So after 20 years (to the day), we sold it and moved on.
  - nicbou 3y ago
    It's really nice to hear something like that from someone who experienced it. If you were back to two people with a promising idea, how would you do it this time?
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  You can make A LOT more money than that as the owner of a small company. If a VC firm wants to invest, it's because the company has the potential to make an absolute killing.

ghaff 3y ago

As a founder you probably don’t get wealthy either and a lot aren’t really satisfied with a $150k/yr total comp/benefits for their successful lifestyle business.

crystalgurl 3y ago
It was pretty nice to exit my startup for hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, I don’t think I’d like to settle for $150k. YMMV, but I suppose a lot of folks are taking a calculated risk and swinging for the fences. More power to em, if you prefer software be a certain way write it yourself.
- ndiddy 3y ago
  Agreed, sure I fucked over my customers after my startup was bought by Google, but I didn't really care because I was able to afford three yachts. I didn't even bother writing the shutdown message myself, I paid some dude on Fiverr to do it. Maybe 150k is fine if you're willing to settle for an above-ground pool in some shithole state in the Midwest, but if you want to spend your time where the true work happens, and collaborate with other innovators and founders in the only place that matters (bay area) you have to set your sights a bit higher.
  - crystalgurl 3y ago
    Humans have agency. If you enter into an agreement for software at a particular price (especially $0) that’s on you.
coldpie 3y ago
Imagine not being "satisfied" with a ~85th percentile wage[1]. Anyone who earns more than $150k/yr should be forced to spend 6 months every 5 years working a minimum wage retail job. They can keep earning their normal salary in escrow until they're done with their "get some damn perspective" temp job. [1] https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...
- sib 3y ago
  I think most of the founders on HN are far above the 85th percentile in intelligence (let's not get into the philosophical arguments about it), so why would they be satisfied with that?
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    Because, being over 85th percentile in intelligence, they would be more likely than average to realize that the marginal impact of income on experienced utility declines sharply the higher you go on the income distribution. (Especially if they’ve experienced life at a variety of income levels, including some near the 85th percentile.)
    - sib 3y ago
      Marginal impact decreases, but the absolute impact is still positive... And the marginal impact is still quite high at the 85th percentile of income because the income distribution is very skewed (the absolute dollar difference from 85th percentile to 99th percentile, where most HN / YC founders probably are on the intelligence scale, is probably much greater than the absolute dollar difference from 15th to 29th percentile, as an example).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- ghaff 3y ago
  I assume someone running a very successful lifestyle business of this sort 1) Probably had a pretty good chance of making nothing at all or even lost money and 2) Could make more money with benefits etc. if they just took a job at a big company. So, yes, they’ve done pretty well but they took a risk and still probably didn’t come close to maximizing comp even they had a rather good outcome. And I just threw out the $150k number because it’s a very good outcome. Could just as easily be something a lot lower including negative.
mesoman 3y ago
As a co-founder, I'd say you can get wealthy or at least comfortable. But, we started with two people. At some point we needed funding. That put us on a track of angel investors, VC's, and a cycle acquisition, buyback, funding, acquisition, buyback, etc. As the techie guy, I found that tiring and distracting. When we changed from software as a product to SAAS, it got a lot less fun. When we grew to 2000 employees (mostly non-tech), the company was a pain. So after 20 years (to the day), we sold it and moved on.
- nicbou 3y ago
  It's really nice to hear something like that from someone who experienced it. If you were back to two people with a promising idea, how would you do it this time?
OkayPhysicist 3y ago
You can make A LOT more money than that as the owner of a small company. If a VC firm wants to invest, it's because the company has the potential to make an absolute killing.