5 ms·

How Hypothes.is is going to fix online Identity and Reputation

35 points by zerostar07 15y ago

tilgovi 15y ago
Thanks, zerostar07! If you're interesting in helping out, watch https://github.com/hypothesis https://github.com/hypothesis or subscribe to our dev list with dev+subscribe@list.hypothes.is
- tilgovi 15y ago
  I should add we have a low-volume list for outgoing announcements if you'd rather just hear those: announce+subscribe@list.hypothes.is
milkshakes 15y ago
worth reading to the end just for this gem: Disclosure: My really good friend Randall Leeds is building Hypothes.is as the technical co-founder. This happened after RWW started covering founder Dan Whaley's efforts to create an annotation system for the whole Web. It's a complete coincidence. Still, I admit that this may have an impact on my reporting. But hey, at least my fund isn't investing in it.
- jonmwords 15y ago
  ;^)
- 18pfsmt 15y ago
  That is interesting. I'm glad you posted it because I'm done reading these breathless blog posts, so obviously desparate for page views. Four years ago, I still read things like Gigaom, TC, and RWW, etc., but I've found they offer nothing of value beyond the HN comment threads.
Adaptive 15y ago
Very excited to see this move forward. Look at this project and compare it to something like diaspora, and you see some significant differences which give hope that this can achieve traction, notably the extensive, deep market research done up front.
- 18pfsmt 15y ago
  Have you ever looked at the number of Diaspora-like (AKA distributed/ federated) social networking projects? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_social_network http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_social_network
  - tilgovi 15y ago
    We're not trying to compete for attention in the social web. Part of that is reflected in our involvement with the W3C Open Annotation Working Group (http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/ http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/). While Hypothes.is may be one place to publish, the goal is to provide better linking and referencing tools to facilitate aggregators and plugins that can bring the conversation back to the source material. In other words, to bring this conversation on HN into the RWW frame and vice versa and to allow better quoting and transclusion between these content silos.
amirmc 15y ago
> "If we could filter the Web by reputation, we could turn it into a meritocracy." What does that mean?
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
droithomme 15y ago
Yet another horrific police state nightmare under construction.
- tilgovi 15y ago
  Quite the opposite, actually. I will be seriously considering the privacy implications of everything we do. One of our core principles is a commitment to pseudonymous accounts. To the extent we allow multiple identities to be linked to one account, it will be in your control to do so (or not) as suits your multi-faceted persona, tin foil hat paranoias, or legitimate privacy concerns. While we understand there is a social cost to cheap pseudonyms (see Friedman, Resnick (2001) http://www.si.umich.edu/~presnick/papers/identifiers/081199.pdf http://www.si.umich.edu/~presnick/papers/identifiers/081199....), we believe we can develop a reputation system and a user community that resists gaming attempts without significant barriers to entry or privacy-invading personal information mining. The goal of Hypothes.is is, on the contrary, to be a forum where you can voice your opposition to policies you find to be ushering in a police state and have the community weigh in on an informed discussion.
kijin 15y ago
> Real people are multi-faceted. We want to be able to express different aspects of ourselves in different contexts. [links to Chris Poole's "identity is prismatic" interview] So far, sounds OK. But then, > A pseudonym could also be privately verified with a government-issued ID or some other standard, so the user remains pseudonymous to the world, but the reputation system knows who it is. Really? Seriously? Government ID is about as far away from multi-faceted identity as you can get. The consequence of a database compromise is also going to be orders of magnitude more catastrophic than the average password leak. Not even Google knows my driver's license number, and I'm sure a lot of us would like to keep it that way. If you want to know what happens when you tie all online identities to Government IDs, just look at South Korea.
- tilgovi 15y ago
  I think Jon was just trying to provide some information on the spectrum of possible identity solutions one can choose from. At Hypothes.is, it's extremely unlikely we would try to do anything like this. However, it does represent a form of "verified pseudonymous" identity, in which your uniqueness as an entity is verified by a central authority, but that identity is never exposed. See my comment below for more information about what we might actually implement.
  - kijin 15y ago
    Thanks for the clarification. But the concern remains that a single "central authority", namely hypothes.is, gets to maintain a huge database that links online pseudonyms to verified real-world identities. That's going to make hypothes.is one hell of a target, not only for identity thieves but also for government authorities of all stripes. Meanwhile you'll need to convince people that they should trust you with that information. Sure, any large online identity provider that possesses enough data to link online identities to real-world identities (such as Facebook) will face the same problem. If this takes off, Chinese hackers will be crawling under your mattress and your PO Box will be overflowing with subpoenas and national security letters before you can say eff-bee-eye. But ideally I'd like to see this problem fixed in some creative way, not merely repeated and exacerbated in a centralized form. Honestly, I have no idea how one might achieve both verification and pseudonymity without cutting corners somewhere else. But I do have some hope for you guys because it seems that EFF is involved. Those people really know how to play with pseudonyms. /tinfoil hat
aufreak3 15y ago
Sounds like a nice idea, but this post makes it look like it is doomed from the start ... and such a system could even be detrimental to a humane, forgiving society.

35 points by zerostar07 15y ago

Thanks, zerostar07! If you're interesting in helping out, watch https://github.com/hypothesis https://github.com/hypothesis or subscribe to our dev list with dev+subscribe@list.hypothes.is

tilgovi 15y ago
I should add we have a low-volume list for outgoing announcements if you'd rather just hear those: announce+subscribe@list.hypothes.is

milkshakes 15y ago

worth reading to the end just for this gem: Disclosure: My really good friend Randall Leeds is building Hypothes.is as the technical co-founder. This happened after RWW started covering founder Dan Whaley's efforts to create an annotation system for the whole Web. It's a complete coincidence. Still, I admit that this may have an impact on my reporting. But hey, at least my fund isn't investing in it.

jonmwords 15y ago
;^)
18pfsmt 15y ago
That is interesting. I'm glad you posted it because I'm done reading these breathless blog posts, so obviously desparate for page views. Four years ago, I still read things like Gigaom, TC, and RWW, etc., but I've found they offer nothing of value beyond the HN comment threads.

Adaptive 15y ago

Very excited to see this move forward. Look at this project and compare it to something like diaspora, and you see some significant differences which give hope that this can achieve traction, notably the extensive, deep market research done up front.

18pfsmt 15y ago
Have you ever looked at the number of Diaspora-like (AKA distributed/ federated) social networking projects? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_social_network http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_social_network
- tilgovi 15y ago
  We're not trying to compete for attention in the social web. Part of that is reflected in our involvement with the W3C Open Annotation Working Group (http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/ http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/). While Hypothes.is may be one place to publish, the goal is to provide better linking and referencing tools to facilitate aggregators and plugins that can bring the conversation back to the source material. In other words, to bring this conversation on HN into the RWW frame and vice versa and to allow better quoting and transclusion between these content silos.

amirmc 15y ago

> "If we could filter the Web by reputation, we could turn it into a meritocracy." What does that mean?

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

droithomme 15y ago

Yet another horrific police state nightmare under construction.

tilgovi 15y ago
Quite the opposite, actually. I will be seriously considering the privacy implications of everything we do. One of our core principles is a commitment to pseudonymous accounts. To the extent we allow multiple identities to be linked to one account, it will be in your control to do so (or not) as suits your multi-faceted persona, tin foil hat paranoias, or legitimate privacy concerns. While we understand there is a social cost to cheap pseudonyms (see Friedman, Resnick (2001) http://www.si.umich.edu/~presnick/papers/identifiers/081199.pdf http://www.si.umich.edu/~presnick/papers/identifiers/081199....), we believe we can develop a reputation system and a user community that resists gaming attempts without significant barriers to entry or privacy-invading personal information mining. The goal of Hypothes.is is, on the contrary, to be a forum where you can voice your opposition to policies you find to be ushering in a police state and have the community weigh in on an informed discussion.

kijin 15y ago

> Real people are multi-faceted. We want to be able to express different aspects of ourselves in different contexts. [links to Chris Poole's "identity is prismatic" interview] So far, sounds OK. But then, > A pseudonym could also be privately verified with a government-issued ID or some other standard, so the user remains pseudonymous to the world, but the reputation system knows who it is. Really? Seriously? Government ID is about as far away from multi-faceted identity as you can get. The consequence of a database compromise is also going to be orders of magnitude more catastrophic than the average password leak. Not even Google knows my driver's license number, and I'm sure a lot of us would like to keep it that way. If you want to know what happens when you tie all online identities to Government IDs, just look at South Korea.

tilgovi 15y ago
I think Jon was just trying to provide some information on the spectrum of possible identity solutions one can choose from. At Hypothes.is, it's extremely unlikely we would try to do anything like this. However, it does represent a form of "verified pseudonymous" identity, in which your uniqueness as an entity is verified by a central authority, but that identity is never exposed. See my comment below for more information about what we might actually implement.
- kijin 15y ago
  Thanks for the clarification. But the concern remains that a single "central authority", namely hypothes.is, gets to maintain a huge database that links online pseudonyms to verified real-world identities. That's going to make hypothes.is one hell of a target, not only for identity thieves but also for government authorities of all stripes. Meanwhile you'll need to convince people that they should trust you with that information. Sure, any large online identity provider that possesses enough data to link online identities to real-world identities (such as Facebook) will face the same problem. If this takes off, Chinese hackers will be crawling under your mattress and your PO Box will be overflowing with subpoenas and national security letters before you can say eff-bee-eye. But ideally I'd like to see this problem fixed in some creative way, not merely repeated and exacerbated in a centralized form. Honestly, I have no idea how one might achieve both verification and pseudonymity without cutting corners somewhere else. But I do have some hope for you guys because it seems that EFF is involved. Those people really know how to play with pseudonyms. /tinfoil hat

aufreak3 15y ago

Sounds like a nice idea, but this post makes it look like it is doomed from the start ... and such a system could even be detrimental to a humane, forgiving society.