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Why isn't there a single mention of the reason Poland wants nukes in this multi-paragraph tirade?. Belarus now has a number of Russian controlled nuclear weapo

by _kbh_ 3y ago

Why isn't there a single mention of the reason Poland wants nukes in this multi-paragraph tirade?. Belarus now has a number of Russian controlled nuclear weapons on its territory bordering Poland. This is a direct escalation by Russia against Poland. > To prevent even the possibility of a hostile alliance placing missiles on its doorstep, the USA would have acted militarily the same way much sooner than Russia, wouldn’t wait 8 years trying to reason with diplomacy. And many people around the world would understand that. And they did (eg in Cuban missile crisis). But its literally hasn't happened in over 60 years, your example of Cuba is old at this point it would be a in a retirement home. > As for nukes — the US has broken every promise it ever made about NATO expansion. No one ever made promises about NATO expansion that once again, as is a large majority of your opinions straight from the Kremlins playbook and Russian propaganda. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-nato-promise-not-to-e... >> The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. > Why would any country ever trust the US when it says it won’t expand or place nukes somewhere? Nuclear Sharing is already very widespread. You're telling me one of the NATO policies that helps defend a country against further Russian aggression is widespread and popular, I for one am shocked. > And they already started building an “anti-nuclear” battery in Poland, ever closer to Russia’s borders, which conveniently could also double as a “nuclear” launch facility. What kind of propaganda rubbish is this even, what does this sentence even mean?. > it caused Russia to pull out of its nuclear treaties with USA, making the world less safe for everyone. And for what? Thats not what Putin said though. >> President Vladimir Putin has said Russia is suspending participation in the New START nuclear arms reduction treaty with the United States after accusing the West of being directly involved in attempts to attack its strategic air bases. > Oh and 5 days ago: Poland wants USA to give it NUCLEAR WARHEADS FOR ITS PLANES. Well, that didn’t take long: Yeah sounds like Poland wants to defend itself from a Russian invasion via Belarus that involves nuclear weapons. Which is looking more likely now that Russia has established PMC bases in Belarus and is placing nuclear weapons in Belarus. Russia needs to respect Polands legitimate security needs.

EGreg 3y ago
Russia absolutely does need to respect Poland’s legitimate concerns. When Lukashenko demanded Belarus’s nukes back, they should have conferred with their US counterparts and both agreed to de-escalate. Oh wait… no one is talking to each other. Each side blames the other 100% and says that unless they win 100% now, it will be an existential threat because you can’t trust the other side. And both sides have a point. It’s exasperating every time A escalates and B escalates in return, then A escalates in return, each side only cites what B did or what A did. This is an example. ns just like with AI, people are dumb about existential global threats. They race to the precipice and justify it with some trivial things that won’t matter when an exinction-level event happens. And btw Russia does NOT have PMC bases in Belarus. Neither did Russia have boots on the ground til 2022. Any more than USA had “boots on the ground” in various countries, or NATO has “boots on the ground” right now in Ukraine with all those “volunteers”. It’s all a game and propaganda from all sides. Acting like Belarus isn’t a real country and has no agency to demand their nukes back, but Ukraine is a country with REAL agency because it is fighting a proxy war and listening to US generals and selling off all their land to US corporations.
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > And btw Russia does NOT have PMC bases in Belarus. What? the PMC themselves says they are in Belarus. > https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/satellite-images-appear-show-build-up-wagner-base-belarus-2023-06-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/satellite-images-appear... > Neither did Russia have boots on the ground til 2022. Yeah this more Russian propaganda that has no basis in reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Russo-Ukrainian_War) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Russo-Ukrain... >> Little green men (Russian: зелёные человечки, romanized: zelyonye chelovechki; Ukrainian: зелені чоловічки, romanized: zeleni cholovichky; Polish: zielone ludziki) are masked soldiers of the Russian Federation who appeared during the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014 carrying weapons and equipment, but wearing unmarked green army uniforms.[1] >> On 17 April 2014, President Putin admitted publicly for the first time that Russian special forces were involved in the events of Crimea, for the purposes of protecting local people and creating conditions for a referendum.[25] [9][10][26][27] Later, he admitted that the Russian Armed Forces had blocked the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Crimea during the events.[28] >> In April 2015, retired Russian Admiral Igor Kasatonov [ru] said that the "little green men" were members of Russian Spetsnaz special forces units. According to his information, Russian troop deployment in Crimea included six helicopter landings and three landings of Ilyushin Il-76 with 500 troops.[31][32][33][34] >> https://www.france24.com/en/20140422-ukraine-little-green-men-russian-troops-crimea-usa https://www.france24.com/en/20140422-ukraine-little-green-me... > Any more than USA had “boots on the ground” in various countries, or NATO has “boots on the ground” right now in Ukraine with all those “volunteers” NATO's not really involved in this conflict outside of supplying weapons and intelligence, if they were the war would be over and there'd be fireworks in Moscow in time for the 4th of July. The volunteers are actual volunteers a lot of them speak about how hard it is to fight in Ukraine compared to where they fought previously which generally had a better equipment army fighting a worse equipped enemy. > It’s all a game and propaganda from all sides. It's mostly propaganda from the Russian side, but this 'both sides' thing is a Russian propaganda tactic designed to muddy the waters and created doubt when there is none. > Acting like Belarus isn’t a real country and has no agency to demand their nukes back No one said Belarus couldn't ask for its nukes back. You have invented a straw man to fight against cause the reality is not something you can argue with. > but Ukraine is a country with REAL agency because it is fighting a proxy war and listening to US generals and selling off all their land to US corporations. Ukraine is fighting for its existence, Russia is fighting to subjugate Ukraine and rape its land and people. Why do you devote so much energy to promoting Russian talking points?

by _kbh_ 3y ago

EGreg 3y ago

Russia absolutely does need to respect Poland’s legitimate concerns. When Lukashenko demanded Belarus’s nukes back, they should have conferred with their US counterparts and both agreed to de-escalate. Oh wait… no one is talking to each other. Each side blames the other 100% and says that unless they win 100% now, it will be an existential threat because you can’t trust the other side. And both sides have a point. It’s exasperating every time A escalates and B escalates in return, then A escalates in return, each side only cites what B did or what A did. This is an example. ns just like with AI, people are dumb about existential global threats. They race to the precipice and justify it with some trivial things that won’t matter when an exinction-level event happens. And btw Russia does NOT have PMC bases in Belarus. Neither did Russia have boots on the ground til 2022. Any more than USA had “boots on the ground” in various countries, or NATO has “boots on the ground” right now in Ukraine with all those “volunteers”. It’s all a game and propaganda from all sides. Acting like Belarus isn’t a real country and has no agency to demand their nukes back, but Ukraine is a country with REAL agency because it is fighting a proxy war and listening to US generals and selling off all their land to US corporations.

_kbh_ 3y ago
> And btw Russia does NOT have PMC bases in Belarus. What? the PMC themselves says they are in Belarus. > https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/satellite-images-appear-show-build-up-wagner-base-belarus-2023-06-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/satellite-images-appear... > Neither did Russia have boots on the ground til 2022. Yeah this more Russian propaganda that has no basis in reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Russo-Ukrainian_War) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Russo-Ukrain... >> Little green men (Russian: зелёные человечки, romanized: zelyonye chelovechki; Ukrainian: зелені чоловічки, romanized: zeleni cholovichky; Polish: zielone ludziki) are masked soldiers of the Russian Federation who appeared during the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014 carrying weapons and equipment, but wearing unmarked green army uniforms.[1] >> On 17 April 2014, President Putin admitted publicly for the first time that Russian special forces were involved in the events of Crimea, for the purposes of protecting local people and creating conditions for a referendum.[25] [9][10][26][27] Later, he admitted that the Russian Armed Forces had blocked the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Crimea during the events.[28] >> In April 2015, retired Russian Admiral Igor Kasatonov [ru] said that the "little green men" were members of Russian Spetsnaz special forces units. According to his information, Russian troop deployment in Crimea included six helicopter landings and three landings of Ilyushin Il-76 with 500 troops.[31][32][33][34] >> https://www.france24.com/en/20140422-ukraine-little-green-men-russian-troops-crimea-usa https://www.france24.com/en/20140422-ukraine-little-green-me... > Any more than USA had “boots on the ground” in various countries, or NATO has “boots on the ground” right now in Ukraine with all those “volunteers” NATO's not really involved in this conflict outside of supplying weapons and intelligence, if they were the war would be over and there'd be fireworks in Moscow in time for the 4th of July. The volunteers are actual volunteers a lot of them speak about how hard it is to fight in Ukraine compared to where they fought previously which generally had a better equipment army fighting a worse equipped enemy. > It’s all a game and propaganda from all sides. It's mostly propaganda from the Russian side, but this 'both sides' thing is a Russian propaganda tactic designed to muddy the waters and created doubt when there is none. > Acting like Belarus isn’t a real country and has no agency to demand their nukes back No one said Belarus couldn't ask for its nukes back. You have invented a straw man to fight against cause the reality is not something you can argue with. > but Ukraine is a country with REAL agency because it is fighting a proxy war and listening to US generals and selling off all their land to US corporations. Ukraine is fighting for its existence, Russia is fighting to subjugate Ukraine and rape its land and people. Why do you devote so much energy to promoting Russian talking points?