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I felt like I wasn't going to write this comment again, but here we go: I don't like the word enshittification. People glom onto it because they like shaking s

I felt like I wasn't going to write this comment again, but here we go: I don't like the word enshittification. People glom onto it because they like shaking sticks more than solving problems, and Corey Doctorow is excellent at exploiting that desire. It's annoying how he enables that sense of defeatism when he's obviously aware of resilient and game-changing alternative software (like FOSS) that has revolutionized the world in his lifetime. Putting pearls before swine makes for nice fiction, but it's a bad tool for explaining real life phenomena like this. "Enshittification" is a very fun and usable thesis. It also obfuscates the problem and fetishizes it's own victimhood instead of enabling users to resist lock-in.

camdenlock 3y ago
[flagged]
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Corey is just an anomaly. Sometimes those "twee neologisms" like the GNU Public License do their job, and bring platforms to their knees. When applied well, great thinkers can use the system to their advantage and come out on top. Doctorow is a good-natured person who just loves to languish in his own helplessness, and it feels like none of us are the better for it.
tremorscript 3y ago
Naming things is not easy. Naming things is hard. I am glad that we have this word now and it is catching on. Because all of us know and see and understand what the problem with platforms are. I don't think it obfuscates the problem. Step 1 to fixing a difficult problem. Give it a good name. The Traveling Salesman problem could well have been called "The NP-hard problem" but TSP is a good name.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
vanderZwan 3y ago
Given that he actively promotes said alternatives that "he is aware of", I find your claim of him enabling defeatism more than a little disingenous. For example, he's the reason I'm supporting the devs of pidgin despite not even directly using that software myself, because he wrote a thread on how nobody donates to it even though it apparently is important enough for bad actors to post bounties for sharing zero day bugs that lets them break into it. More importantly, the term "enshittification" does the exact opposite of "obfuscating the problem". It comes with a very concrete description of a pattern of how things are made worse that most people have felt but had no word for until now. It can also seen to be played out over and over again. It even has predictive powers. Which means people can now describe a problem without having to write five paragraphs explaining the issue. Or needing the skill to write it in the first place. That's what words are for. That's what sharing ideas is for. Are you going to blame people for relying on a doctor's diagnosis instead of studying medicine themselves too? And by finally being able to quickly identify an issue, people can start taking active steps against it. Which is the exact opposite of what you are claiming. But hey, how dare people speak up about issues that affect them them without immediately knowing how to solve/having the means to solve a large systemic problem that other people with more power and money inflict upon them, I guess.
Karrot_Kream 3y ago
Unfortunately most people that become popular by whipping up outrage only really know how to continue doing that to stay visible. It's much easier to identify open problems than to solve them; this is why they remain open problems. Stallman is actually a very prominent exception to this. Not only did he whip up outrage but he then created a principled movement behind his outrage and push forward progress in his ideas. While I do think he lost the plot a bit recently, most don't even get half as far. (I always found that a bit ironic about Doctorow. He identifies problems with social media but uses its preferred form of virality to spread his own message.)
high_5 3y ago
I agree with "enshittification" being a poor choice. I would go with plain simple "milking the product", not for the benefit of the user, of course.
- smolder 3y ago
  I think it's a good term in that it describes what's happening from the users perspective instead of from the businesses perspective, so more people can identify with it. It's the outsiders view of what happens to a business that sees itself as "milking the product".
drpixie 3y ago
(I'll say it again). I like the term "enshittification" - it implies a deliberate intention that is missing from degradation. And regression merely implies reversion towards a previous state. Enshittification is a deliberate process: provide a (typically cheap/free) service, (dominate the field,) lock users into it, and exploit to the maximum possible in the short term, ultimately destroying the service.

camdenlock 3y ago

[flagged]

smoldesu 3y ago
Corey is just an anomaly. Sometimes those "twee neologisms" like the GNU Public License do their job, and bring platforms to their knees. When applied well, great thinkers can use the system to their advantage and come out on top. Doctorow is a good-natured person who just loves to languish in his own helplessness, and it feels like none of us are the better for it.

tremorscript 3y ago

Naming things is not easy. Naming things is hard. I am glad that we have this word now and it is catching on. Because all of us know and see and understand what the problem with platforms are. I don't think it obfuscates the problem. Step 1 to fixing a difficult problem. Give it a good name. The Traveling Salesman problem could well have been called "The NP-hard problem" but TSP is a good name.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

vanderZwan 3y ago

Given that he actively promotes said alternatives that "he is aware of", I find your claim of him enabling defeatism more than a little disingenous. For example, he's the reason I'm supporting the devs of pidgin despite not even directly using that software myself, because he wrote a thread on how nobody donates to it even though it apparently is important enough for bad actors to post bounties for sharing zero day bugs that lets them break into it. More importantly, the term "enshittification" does the exact opposite of "obfuscating the problem". It comes with a very concrete description of a pattern of how things are made worse that most people have felt but had no word for until now. It can also seen to be played out over and over again. It even has predictive powers. Which means people can now describe a problem without having to write five paragraphs explaining the issue. Or needing the skill to write it in the first place. That's what words are for. That's what sharing ideas is for. Are you going to blame people for relying on a doctor's diagnosis instead of studying medicine themselves too? And by finally being able to quickly identify an issue, people can start taking active steps against it. Which is the exact opposite of what you are claiming. But hey, how dare people speak up about issues that affect them them without immediately knowing how to solve/having the means to solve a large systemic problem that other people with more power and money inflict upon them, I guess.

Karrot_Kream 3y ago

Unfortunately most people that become popular by whipping up outrage only really know how to continue doing that to stay visible. It's much easier to identify open problems than to solve them; this is why they remain open problems. Stallman is actually a very prominent exception to this. Not only did he whip up outrage but he then created a principled movement behind his outrage and push forward progress in his ideas. While I do think he lost the plot a bit recently, most don't even get half as far. (I always found that a bit ironic about Doctorow. He identifies problems with social media but uses its preferred form of virality to spread his own message.)

high_5 3y ago

I agree with "enshittification" being a poor choice. I would go with plain simple "milking the product", not for the benefit of the user, of course.

smolder 3y ago
I think it's a good term in that it describes what's happening from the users perspective instead of from the businesses perspective, so more people can identify with it. It's the outsiders view of what happens to a business that sees itself as "milking the product".

drpixie 3y ago

(I'll say it again). I like the term "enshittification" - it implies a deliberate intention that is missing from degradation. And regression merely implies reversion towards a previous state. Enshittification is a deliberate process: provide a (typically cheap/free) service, (dominate the field,) lock users into it, and exploit to the maximum possible in the short term, ultimately destroying the service.