3 ms·

Market manipulation through wash trading is not "mildly dubious". Your description is incredibly generous, in a way that gives credit where none is due. The was

Market manipulation through wash trading is not "mildly dubious". Your description is incredibly generous, in a way that gives credit where none is due. The wash trading is the exchange equivalent of soliciting for investors while faking massive sales at-cost, which is still major fraud.

seanhunter 3y ago
^ this. I remember having a conversation with a cryptothusiast who said to me "If it's on chain, it's fair game". I had to have the "no dude, we have laws about things like market abuse. You might not know about them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist..." chat
- fullspectrumdev 3y ago
  The Code Is Law types are very adamant Code Is Law right until they get fucked. Personally I say: let them learn the lessons the hard way, we can all stand back and perhaps learn something interesting. See it as an economic sandbox.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    It’s too bad there’s no way to “short” these people.
- tim333 3y ago
  Laws vary by country while blockchains are global. It's probably legal somewhere.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    That just means there’s someplace you can hide for the rest of your life, not that it’s a loophole that gets you out of trouble. What matters is if it’s legal where you live and travel. And whether any of those places have extradition treaties.
johngladtj 3y ago
So long the trades are honored there is nothing wrong with wash trading.
- mikelovenotwar 3y ago
  Fraudulent misrepresentation is wrong. They didn't allow legitimate users to withdraw.
  - johngladtj 3y ago
    No disagreement on the withdrawal, that was definitely fraud and theft. On the wash trading I don't see any misrepresentation so long as the trades are actually happening.
    - dundarious 3y ago
      Wash trades misrepresent the trading volume, which is a key signal of the interest in and utility of a trading venue. Imagine eBay described itself to investors as having $100billion in trade occur on the platform, but in reality, well over $99billion of it was actually eBay employees posting (even real) items for sale that other eBay employees would then purchase, all on company time and with company cash. Even if the trades are honored and there were actual goods for sale in those listings, it is major securities fraud. If a real securities exchange does wash trades to inflate trading volume, it is major market manipulation/securities fraud (it's illegal if any market participant does it to inflate volume, not just the exchange itself). If a crypto exchange does it, at the very least the normative ethics of the industry should say "that's not good".

seanhunter 3y ago

^ this. I remember having a conversation with a cryptothusiast who said to me "If it's on chain, it's fair game". I had to have the "no dude, we have laws about things like market abuse. You might not know about them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist..." chat

fullspectrumdev 3y ago
The Code Is Law types are very adamant Code Is Law right until they get fucked. Personally I say: let them learn the lessons the hard way, we can all stand back and perhaps learn something interesting. See it as an economic sandbox.
- hinkley 3y ago
  It’s too bad there’s no way to “short” these people.
tim333 3y ago
Laws vary by country while blockchains are global. It's probably legal somewhere.
- hinkley 3y ago
  That just means there’s someplace you can hide for the rest of your life, not that it’s a loophole that gets you out of trouble. What matters is if it’s legal where you live and travel. And whether any of those places have extradition treaties.

johngladtj 3y ago

So long the trades are honored there is nothing wrong with wash trading.

mikelovenotwar 3y ago
Fraudulent misrepresentation is wrong. They didn't allow legitimate users to withdraw.
- johngladtj 3y ago
  No disagreement on the withdrawal, that was definitely fraud and theft. On the wash trading I don't see any misrepresentation so long as the trades are actually happening.
  - dundarious 3y ago
    Wash trades misrepresent the trading volume, which is a key signal of the interest in and utility of a trading venue. Imagine eBay described itself to investors as having $100billion in trade occur on the platform, but in reality, well over $99billion of it was actually eBay employees posting (even real) items for sale that other eBay employees would then purchase, all on company time and with company cash. Even if the trades are honored and there were actual goods for sale in those listings, it is major securities fraud. If a real securities exchange does wash trades to inflate trading volume, it is major market manipulation/securities fraud (it's illegal if any market participant does it to inflate volume, not just the exchange itself). If a crypto exchange does it, at the very least the normative ethics of the industry should say "that's not good".