3 ms·

Nothing absurd about it at all. Unfortunately this is a view held by many Americans. It is sad to me to see people defend the fact that one person can accumul

Nothing absurd about it at all. Unfortunately this is a view held by many Americans. It is sad to me to see people defend the fact that one person can accumulate so much whilst vast numbers of people have so little. Hopefully, someday we will strive to implement a just and equitable society rather than trying to become Ferenginar.

Arnt 3y ago
He's just an outlier in a system where people can decide for themselves and some decide this way, some decide that way. You can take a more general case instead, if you want one that describes a large number of regular people insead of rare exceptions. At the places where I've worked, the colleagues without cars generally had a noticeably higher disposable income than the ones with. Some of the people with cars thought they needed cars, in their opinion wasn't really their choice, and it was somehow unfair that they had lower disposable income than the carless people after each had paid what was necessary. Fair or not? Each had judged their needs for themselves, differently, and one of the results was that even though the pay was the same, one group had a lot more money in the hand.
- coldtea 3y ago
  It's an overstatement that people "can decide for themselves". For starters, nobody asked them if they agree with the system, people are just born into it. Same for their initial starting point in the system (e.g. born into poverty, born black, etc), which largely determines their fate and position it. Sure, some can overcome their unequal starting point, but only by working much harder than people who didnd't have to overcome theirs. That's not only not an equal game, it's not even a meritocratic one.
  - Arnt 3y ago
    People can't decide everything for themselves, but they can decide much more than nothing. Mostly. My wife was born in a place where people couldn't decide where to live. When you wanted to move out from your parents, you'd file an application for an apartment, specify in which city, and a suitable apartment would be allocated to you (quite often after some waiting time). What was considered "suitable" was decided by the people in that office, you'd have no say in the matter. In a very real and practical sense, people had no say in where to live. You moved out in order to study and wanted to live near university? Well, you might get a place there, or not — not your choice. This is rare. In most countries people have much more influence over this (and it's a key aspect of everyday life). I'm in Namibia now, a country very much poorer than my native Norway. People here have a say in where to live, like people almost everywhere on the globe. Not completely, they'd have a problem getting a visa to live where I do, but the medical student I chatted with yesterday has the ability to choose whether he'd rather live closer to university or to the hospital. Compared to the worst-off person I personally know, he has a lot of influence over his daily life. The fact that some people don't have the legal right to look for a place to live doesn't mean that most people don't. Most people do.
    - synetic 3y ago
      You vastly undercount the role of luck in Elon’s success and the success of others with billions. There is luck in where you are born. There is luck in terms of who you parents are and how your brain happened to respond to whatever i outs they gave you. There is luck all along the way and due to the idiotic system the U.S. has some will accumulate vast wealth whilst others have virtually nothing. Most people, the billions of extremely poor in the world, don’t really have a choice.
      - Arnt 3y ago
        I don't undercount — I don't even try to count. Why should I, really? His fortune would be at most $30/person minus the cost of performing the transfer. Less if his selling all of Tesla leads to the share price dropping, which sounds plausible, so say $15-25. Not per month, it's a one-time transfer. If you want to even consider that kind of thing, pick someone with enough money to make it worthwhile. Say, transfer all of the assets owned by people in the richest big country. That's an easily defined set of of "rich people" and more money than just a few days' earnings for very poor people. If you want to consider that kind of thing.
JohnnyHerz 3y ago
It is indeed the view held by most Americans. That is one of the fundamental differences between America and other countries. It is also one of the reasons that America is the country that the rest of the world aspires to be. There are plenty of socialist or even communist options in the world that espouse the ideals that you seem to align with. If you wish to live and benefit from American exceptionalism, then by all means put your hand at the till and direct your own ship in any way you desire. Because in America, if your smart and hardworking, the sky is the limit.

Arnt 3y ago

He's just an outlier in a system where people can decide for themselves and some decide this way, some decide that way. You can take a more general case instead, if you want one that describes a large number of regular people insead of rare exceptions. At the places where I've worked, the colleagues without cars generally had a noticeably higher disposable income than the ones with. Some of the people with cars thought they needed cars, in their opinion wasn't really their choice, and it was somehow unfair that they had lower disposable income than the carless people after each had paid what was necessary. Fair or not? Each had judged their needs for themselves, differently, and one of the results was that even though the pay was the same, one group had a lot more money in the hand.

coldtea 3y ago
It's an overstatement that people "can decide for themselves". For starters, nobody asked them if they agree with the system, people are just born into it. Same for their initial starting point in the system (e.g. born into poverty, born black, etc), which largely determines their fate and position it. Sure, some can overcome their unequal starting point, but only by working much harder than people who didnd't have to overcome theirs. That's not only not an equal game, it's not even a meritocratic one.
- Arnt 3y ago
  People can't decide everything for themselves, but they can decide much more than nothing. Mostly. My wife was born in a place where people couldn't decide where to live. When you wanted to move out from your parents, you'd file an application for an apartment, specify in which city, and a suitable apartment would be allocated to you (quite often after some waiting time). What was considered "suitable" was decided by the people in that office, you'd have no say in the matter. In a very real and practical sense, people had no say in where to live. You moved out in order to study and wanted to live near university? Well, you might get a place there, or not — not your choice. This is rare. In most countries people have much more influence over this (and it's a key aspect of everyday life). I'm in Namibia now, a country very much poorer than my native Norway. People here have a say in where to live, like people almost everywhere on the globe. Not completely, they'd have a problem getting a visa to live where I do, but the medical student I chatted with yesterday has the ability to choose whether he'd rather live closer to university or to the hospital. Compared to the worst-off person I personally know, he has a lot of influence over his daily life. The fact that some people don't have the legal right to look for a place to live doesn't mean that most people don't. Most people do.
  - synetic 3y ago
    You vastly undercount the role of luck in Elon’s success and the success of others with billions. There is luck in where you are born. There is luck in terms of who you parents are and how your brain happened to respond to whatever i outs they gave you. There is luck all along the way and due to the idiotic system the U.S. has some will accumulate vast wealth whilst others have virtually nothing. Most people, the billions of extremely poor in the world, don’t really have a choice.
    - Arnt 3y ago
      I don't undercount — I don't even try to count. Why should I, really? His fortune would be at most $30/person minus the cost of performing the transfer. Less if his selling all of Tesla leads to the share price dropping, which sounds plausible, so say $15-25. Not per month, it's a one-time transfer. If you want to even consider that kind of thing, pick someone with enough money to make it worthwhile. Say, transfer all of the assets owned by people in the richest big country. That's an easily defined set of of "rich people" and more money than just a few days' earnings for very poor people. If you want to consider that kind of thing.

JohnnyHerz 3y ago

It is indeed the view held by most Americans. That is one of the fundamental differences between America and other countries. It is also one of the reasons that America is the country that the rest of the world aspires to be. There are plenty of socialist or even communist options in the world that espouse the ideals that you seem to align with. If you wish to live and benefit from American exceptionalism, then by all means put your hand at the till and direct your own ship in any way you desire. Because in America, if your smart and hardworking, the sky is the limit.