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How did this apply? I admit I haven't been following the drama closely.

• jtokoph 3y ago
  The apollo dev is based in Canada and recorded the phone calls with Reddit without them knowing. The Apollo dev released transcripts (and perhaps recordings) of the calls to disprove statements made by Reddit.
  • judge2020 3y ago
    Has a lawyer weighed in on if this was actually legal? It’s concerning wiretap laws with participants in two different countries, so the legality might not be just “is it legal under Canada law”
    • michaelmrose 3y ago
      Why would a Canadian talking on his Canadian phone service expect to be bound by the laws of a foreign country because a call terminated there.
      • brightlancer 3y ago
        Expectation's got nothing to do with it. Any country can claim jurisdiction on any action committed anywhere; the question is whether that country can reach you.
      • pyuser583 3y ago
        Why would an American talking on an American phone service lack protection provided by American laws?
        • justahuman74 3y ago
          Why would an American press 'Accept' on any telephone service, it's a wild-west of spam/scam calls. What protection.
        • misnome 3y ago
          To hazard a guess, because they might possess more than a childs’ understanding of jurisdiction.
        • InCityDreams 3y ago
          Things get complicated once international, and state, borders are crossed.
        • michaelmrose 3y ago
          Legally because the recording takes place entirely in Canada. For practical purposes getting something prosecuted across national borders is incredibly complicated even for serious crimes that are crimes in both nations with clear jurisdiction and basically impossible beyond that scope. In fact only an American would have the temerity to imagine that their laws might apply to someone in another country merely by calling them on the phone.
      • aidenn0 3y ago
        If a Canadian, connecting to his Canadian ISP hacks into a computer in the US, if they aren't extradited, I think they should be cautious about traveling to the US. The law exists to protect the person being recorded, so if the person being recorded is somewhere where the law is in effect, then it can be applied. There is case-law supporting something similar within the US at least: if a person in e.g. California (where all parties' consent is needed) is recorded by a person in e.g. Virginia (where only one party's consent is needed) then they have violated the California law.
        • zarzavat 3y ago
          I don’t think recording and hacking are equivalent. Recording is a passive act that entirely takes place entirely within the territory of the person doing the recording. Whereas hacking involves accessing a computer system that is in a different jurisdiction, which necessarily involves actively communicating with it and sending it commands. Recording a call is more like listening to a radio station. Countries may make it illegal to listen to certain communications, but as soon as those radio waves leave that jurisdiction then they are fair game for anyone who wants to listen to them. Pretty much everybody should be cautious about entering the US!
• sillysaurusx 3y ago
  It’s such a depressing situation. Steve Huffman got caught red handed making up lies about Apollo’s dev for no reason whatsoever. I wish I was exaggerating. Every time I try to describe the event, it ends up sounding like low quality flamebait. Yet it’s a complete description of what happened. He never acknowledged it, either. It was just evil. Usually there are confounding factors or reasons to be on the founder’s side, or to at least see the situation from their point of view. But in this case, it was a blatant lie. The most charitable explanation I’ve ever been able to think of is “maybe Huffman literally forgot that he misunderstood the Apollo dev because he was so stressed.” But eventually I concluded that requires so much mental gymnastics that I may as well compete at the Olympics. And even in that situation, he should’ve said something. Huffman was a part of the original YC batch. There were no YC alums before him. This was the era when pg wrote “Don’t be evil”, which was at least a good idea, if not an implicit guideline to all founders. And then this happens a decade and some change later.
  • mcpackieh 3y ago
    Memory can be a funny thing, people repeat stories to themselves to keep memories fresh, but with each retelling the story can shift. "I thought he threatened me but then he clarified that he didn't" could turn into "He seemed to threaten me, but then chickened out when I confronted him" His memory of admitting he made an error could turn into a memory of still feeling threatened but trying to let the Apollo dev save face. All this is to say that Steve Huffman might not be deliberately lying in this instance. Maybe. It's hard to give him too much credit since he's already shown himself to be a snake who edits other people's comments and that's certainly not something that could be done by accident. Nonetheless, memory is a funny thing.
    • sillysaurusx 3y ago
      Agreed, and I went down that road too. Unfortunately what sealed it for me was Steve’s response during his followup AMA when someone asked him about the Apollo dev. He said that the dev often said one thing and did another. Christian (the dev) called him out on it and said “I give you permission to name a single time this has happened.” No response. In other words, Steve doubled down yet again and tried to do the same damn thing after he was caught. Why lie like this? A developer’s reputation is their most important asset. What Steve did (or tried to do, till the phone conversation proved otherwise) was simply awful.