4 ms·

Wagner and its sub Rusich? Both are directly funded by Russia (as recently admitted by Putin himself). You can possibly claim that it is PMC rather than direct

Wagner and its sub Rusich? Both are directly funded by Russia (as recently admitted by Putin himself). You can possibly claim that it is PMC rather than direct Russian military, but then there is the recent ultimatum given to Wagner troops -- Join Russian military ranks or leave.

pandaman 3y ago
Even if we consider "Wagner" to be "neo-nazi" with no evidence what so ever, as you noticed yourself, it's a PMC, so it's not a part of the military. And the ultimatum confirms that (you cannot demand people who are part of the military to join the military). As for "Rusich" relation to "Wagner" there are just Western journalists claiming that. "Wagner" is not very secretive and Prigozhin is making more videos than some ecelebs yet he never mentioned that nor has shown any "Rusich" troops. Was it all you had?
- neoromantique 3y ago
  >Even if we consider "Wagner" to be "neo-nazi" with no evidence what so ever. lol, I'm done. Edit: Looked through comment history and it makes sense now. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30731180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30731180 You're a joke, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
  - pandaman 3y ago
    Sure, and you should not be lying though.
- gdy 3y ago
  "Even if we consider "Wagner" to be "neo-nazi" with no evidence what so ever" Well, this sure looks like an evidence of Wagner's commander having a neo-Nazi tattoo [0][1]. Besides Utkin's personality there doesn't seem to be anything else. [0] https://t.me/concordgroup_official/729 https://t.me/concordgroup_official/729 [1] https://t.me/concordgroup_official/736 https://t.me/concordgroup_official/736
  - pandaman 3y ago
    What's the answer? It doesn't play audio for me.
    - gdy 3y ago
      Essentially lack of denial. Weird mix of 'Utkin was undercover among Nazis' and 'to fight Nazism one needs to try it himself'. By the way, Bellingcat claims that Utkin has a minor position in Wagner.
      - pandaman 3y ago
        I'd imagine if they recorded an audio answer they were not being serious, so makes sense you found it weird. Bellingcat claims a lot of things with no evidence, it's not a serious source IMO.
        gdy 3y ago
        Almost all Prigoshin's statements are audio and video messages.
        pandaman 3y ago
        Yes, I don't think he was being serious in almost all his videos I've seen. Does not he ask Zelensky to kiss Joe Biden for him in some?
gdy 3y ago
What's the source for Rusich being a part of Wagner? Rusich is despicable.
- neoromantique 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group#cite_note-:2-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group#cite_note-:2-1 I wanted to verify sources a bit further myself, but alas: https://i.imgur.com/YxG58lR.png https://i.imgur.com/YxG58lR.png To be fair, it is silly to even separate them as they're all fighting hand in hand with regular Russian army with Russian army supplies, so for all intents and purposes they were both part of it. But seeing as the person I was responding to is touting about "powerful Russian military" and "weak Europe" from the comforts of the western middle class, I don't really want to engage in discussion any further.
  - gdy 3y ago
    Milchakov was seen on a Wagner photo in Syria and "allegedly since the summer of 2017 a group of 6 people from Rusich fought in Wagner" ("С осени 2017 года у Вагнера в строю якобы целая группа из «Русича» – шесть человек.") [0] So much for Rusich being a part of Wagner. The same source says Wagner killed 5 fighters from Rusich guarding one of Donbass warlords. "so for all intents and purposes they were both part of it" Not really. Rusich is a dirty secret just like Utkin's personality. They are not legitimized in any way. Azov with the Wolfsangel on their banner and Aidar are openly ultra-nationalist and touted by Kyev as heroes. [0] https://www.fontanka.ru/2017/10/19/101/ https://www.fontanka.ru/2017/10/19/101/
    - neoromantique 3y ago
      As I said, I took it off wiki and I did not verify sources further due to lack of interest in this angle (Wagner is equally despicable in my view). Russia and Russian Military have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse, so I don't really care what the "official" standing of these units is. They are fed by Russia, armed by Russia and controlled by Russia, everything else is "Пыль в глаза". Without downplaying the troubling beginnings of Azov (who aren't the worst offenders by a mile if you look at 2014-2015, to be honest) -- it has little bearing in 2023. Ukrainian army went a long way cleaning up their ranks and becoming a professional army since then, they had trials and punished their own soldiers for committing crimes in ATO, which Russian side not only did not do, but encouraged. The World is holding Ukraine to an impossible standard right now, magnifying every individual case and person to paint the whole country in bad light while turning the blind eye to one to Russian atrocities (See HRW about Cluster munitions for Ukraine vs silence on Russia using all sorts of forbidden weaponry).

pandaman 3y ago

Even if we consider "Wagner" to be "neo-nazi" with no evidence what so ever, as you noticed yourself, it's a PMC, so it's not a part of the military. And the ultimatum confirms that (you cannot demand people who are part of the military to join the military). As for "Rusich" relation to "Wagner" there are just Western journalists claiming that. "Wagner" is not very secretive and Prigozhin is making more videos than some ecelebs yet he never mentioned that nor has shown any "Rusich" troops. Was it all you had?

neoromantique 3y ago
>Even if we consider "Wagner" to be "neo-nazi" with no evidence what so ever. lol, I'm done. Edit: Looked through comment history and it makes sense now. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30731180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30731180 You're a joke, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
- pandaman 3y ago
  Sure, and you should not be lying though.
gdy 3y ago
"Even if we consider "Wagner" to be "neo-nazi" with no evidence what so ever" Well, this sure looks like an evidence of Wagner's commander having a neo-Nazi tattoo [0][1]. Besides Utkin's personality there doesn't seem to be anything else. [0] https://t.me/concordgroup_official/729 https://t.me/concordgroup_official/729 [1] https://t.me/concordgroup_official/736 https://t.me/concordgroup_official/736
- pandaman 3y ago
  What's the answer? It doesn't play audio for me.
  - gdy 3y ago
    Essentially lack of denial. Weird mix of 'Utkin was undercover among Nazis' and 'to fight Nazism one needs to try it himself'. By the way, Bellingcat claims that Utkin has a minor position in Wagner.
    - pandaman 3y ago
      I'd imagine if they recorded an audio answer they were not being serious, so makes sense you found it weird. Bellingcat claims a lot of things with no evidence, it's not a serious source IMO.
      - gdy 3y ago
        Almost all Prigoshin's statements are audio and video messages.
        pandaman 3y ago
        Yes, I don't think he was being serious in almost all his videos I've seen. Does not he ask Zelensky to kiss Joe Biden for him in some?

gdy 3y ago

What's the source for Rusich being a part of Wagner? Rusich is despicable.

neoromantique 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group#cite_note-:2-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group#cite_note-:2-1 I wanted to verify sources a bit further myself, but alas: https://i.imgur.com/YxG58lR.png https://i.imgur.com/YxG58lR.png To be fair, it is silly to even separate them as they're all fighting hand in hand with regular Russian army with Russian army supplies, so for all intents and purposes they were both part of it. But seeing as the person I was responding to is touting about "powerful Russian military" and "weak Europe" from the comforts of the western middle class, I don't really want to engage in discussion any further.
- gdy 3y ago
  Milchakov was seen on a Wagner photo in Syria and "allegedly since the summer of 2017 a group of 6 people from Rusich fought in Wagner" ("С осени 2017 года у Вагнера в строю якобы целая группа из «Русича» – шесть человек.") [0] So much for Rusich being a part of Wagner. The same source says Wagner killed 5 fighters from Rusich guarding one of Donbass warlords. "so for all intents and purposes they were both part of it" Not really. Rusich is a dirty secret just like Utkin's personality. They are not legitimized in any way. Azov with the Wolfsangel on their banner and Aidar are openly ultra-nationalist and touted by Kyev as heroes. [0] https://www.fontanka.ru/2017/10/19/101/ https://www.fontanka.ru/2017/10/19/101/
  - neoromantique 3y ago
    As I said, I took it off wiki and I did not verify sources further due to lack of interest in this angle (Wagner is equally despicable in my view). Russia and Russian Military have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse, so I don't really care what the "official" standing of these units is. They are fed by Russia, armed by Russia and controlled by Russia, everything else is "Пыль в глаза". Without downplaying the troubling beginnings of Azov (who aren't the worst offenders by a mile if you look at 2014-2015, to be honest) -- it has little bearing in 2023. Ukrainian army went a long way cleaning up their ranks and becoming a professional army since then, they had trials and punished their own soldiers for committing crimes in ATO, which Russian side not only did not do, but encouraged. The World is holding Ukraine to an impossible standard right now, magnifying every individual case and person to paint the whole country in bad light while turning the blind eye to one to Russian atrocities (See HRW about Cluster munitions for Ukraine vs silence on Russia using all sorts of forbidden weaponry).