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Why don’t you directly answer what I asked? Unless you’re saying “well, here is the official line, I think whatever they said”. My point of view is very simple
by EGreg 3y ago
Why don’t you directly answer what I asked? Unless you’re saying “well, here is the official line, I think whatever they said”.
My point of view is very simple … implementing Minsk II could have prevented all of this. Presidents met repeatedly for YEARS but, at least on the Ukrainian side, it was all just “to buy time” for a larger escalation, never to implement the Minsk II. But google it and read the provisions. ALL OF THEM ARE POSITIVE FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED. And far better than this war.
If Russia really wanted to take over Georgia, why didn’t they?
If Russia wanted to kill Ukrainians why did they not carpet bomb a single city like they did Aleppo and Grozny?
Why are so many people saying this is “just Putin”? Because they still hope to avoid blaming ALL RUSSIANS. But the fact is if you killed Putin it would be like assassinating JFK — the next guy LBJ only escalated the “special military operations” in Viet Nam, Laos, etc.
We HAVE TO RESPECT OTHER COUNTRIES’ CONCERNS, instead of caricaturing them as alternately dumb, deranged, simply under a psychopathic leader, etc.
In 2008, Burns, then the American ambassador to Moscow, wrote to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice: “Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests.”
That about says it all. It is NOT just ”one dictator”. It is our foreign policy. Just as it was in every. other. country.
And it’s not just Jeffrey Sachs or Scott Ritter or something. It’s literally EVERY expert who isn’t a war hawk and whose job it was to know this predicted the outcome. And wrote open letters and so on:
https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-follows-decades-of-warnings-that-nato-expansion-into-eastern-europe-could-provoke-russia-177999 https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-follows-decades-of-w...
- _kbh_ 3y ago> My point of view is very simple … implementing Minsk II could have prevented all of this. Ah yes more international agreements that Russia will just ignore, like they ignored Minsk 1. Just like they ignored the Budapest Memorandum But trust us this time, we will totally follow the agreement!. Russia doesn't abide by agreements they seem them as weakness they only abide when they see strength. A agreement will never stop this war it will just kick it down the road at best, and letter Russia rearm at the worst. > If Russia wanted to kill Ukrainians why did they not carpet bomb a single city like they did Aleppo and Grozny? Have you not seen Bakhmut?. This what Russia does, like they did and do in Syria, like they did Checneya, like they do in Ukraine. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/5/24/satellite-images-show-scale-of-destruction-in-bakhmut-ukraine https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/5/24/satellite-... > We HAVE TO RESPECT OTHER COUNTRIES’ CONCERNS, instead of caricaturing them as alternately dumb, deranged, simply under a psychopathic leader, etc. No amounts of caps lock will make this reality. Russia doesn't have 'concerns' its only 'concern' is that it will be unable to subjugate post soviet states in the future due to either their strength or their inclusion in alliances like NATO. > And it’s not just Jeffrey Sachs or Scott Ritter or something. Why am I not surprised you instantly invoke two Russian propagandist.
- EGreg 3y ago> Why am I not surprised you instantly invoke two Russian propagandist. Instantly as opposed to what? The point was to list them as a countrexample. Here is a longer list of “Russian assets”: Noam Chomsky The Pope Tulsi Gabbard (Hillary said so!) Progressives in Congress Conservatives in Congress The population of India The population of China Nigel Farage All experts who signed warnings for decades: https://theconversation.com/amp/ukraine-war-follows-decades-of-warnings-that-nato-expansion-into-eastern-europe-could-provoke-russia-177999 https://theconversation.com/amp/ukraine-war-follows-decades-... Just like now, experts in AI write strongly worded open letters warning of 10% or more chance of human extinction, but we disregard them, just like no one builds nuclear fallout shelters anymore. It’s a generation that pollutes the planet with plastic etc, destroys species and ecosystems, insect populations are plummeting, and even global warming is now a much less pressing concern — and no one can stop it from rushing to the precipice. But I’m glad you have such great justifications for continuing the forever wars. Literally no one with any pedigree regardless of what they have done, can be tolerated for anything else than full support for the latest endless war. Same with if you questioned any aspect of the rushed vaccines. Or any number of other coordinated movements.
- EGreg 3y agoAlso what makes you think any side can be trusted to abide by agreements? That is never the goal: https://www.agenzianova.com/en/news/zelensky-returns-from-turkey-with-five-soldiers-of-the-azov-battalion-captured-in-mariupol/ https://www.agenzianova.com/en/news/zelensky-returns-from-tu...