5 ms·

> success Can somebody elaborate on FreeBSD's "success"?

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
Frankly, the fact that it survived 30 years (and is still very actively used and developed and deployed) counts as success in my mind.
pjmlp 3y ago
Being used as foundation for PlayStation OS, Netflix and others. Being available alongside Linux distributions as official supported OS on major cloud vendors. Maybe the contributions to upstream could be better, but that is the choice they decided to make.
- pseudonym0us 3y ago
  >Being used as foundation for PlayStation OS, Netflix and others. Isn't that thanks to its license? They literally can be used in closed source software without a word of credit.
  - throw0101c 3y ago
    Netflix gives back quite a lot. You'll see "Sponsored by: Netfix" quite often in commit messages: * https://www.freshsource.org/commits.php https://www.freshsource.org/commits.php There isn't much special secret sauce that Netflix has at the OS layer of things, so there's not much reason for them to keep the patches in-house (and then have to maintain as the public source rolls forward). Other vendors that give back are Dell EMC Isilon (keeping their OneFS code private), Juniper, Netgate, etc. Sony is unique in that it was a one-time fork, and now that the product is out there's not much churn in things. Most vendors have learned that keeping things in-house just causes pain down the road when you have to re-base with the latest FreeBSD release.
    - monocasa 3y ago
      From what I've heard, they use FreeBSD pretty much just in their CDN appliances. Apparently their application servers are mainly Linux. There's a lot of weird reasons why you'd use FreeBSD in storage appliances that I have mixed feelings about.
    - Freaky 3y ago
      https://freshbsd.org/freebsd?q=%22Sponsored+by+Netflix%22 https://freshbsd.org/freebsd?q=%22Sponsored+by+Netflix%22 3,975 commits.
  - Zambyte 3y ago
    > They literally can be used in closed source software without a word of credit. This is not true of any of the "acceptable licenses" listed by FreeBSD. https://www.freebsd.org/internal/software-license/ https://www.freebsd.org/internal/software-license/ See: the clauses saying "must reproduce/retain the above copyright".
    - pseudonym0us 3y ago
      >See: the clauses saying "must reproduce/retain the above copyright". Yeah, you will see the copyright if you are working at the company. Outsiders would never know it's a fork.
      - Zambyte 3y ago
        Read the licenses more closely.
        pseudonym0us 3y ago
        Work in a project with BSD-licensed stuff.
        Zambyte 3y ago
        If you're fine with violating the license, then there is nothing stopping you from closing the source to GPL licensed software without a word of credit. I'm not sure what your point is.
        pseudonym0us 3y ago
        No need to violate the license, just close the source and no outsider would know it's a fork.
        Zambyte 3y ago
        See clause 2 of both BSD licenses.
- throw0101c 3y ago
  * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_FreeBSD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_Free...
codetrotter 3y ago
Sony based the OSes for PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 5 on FreeBSD. Netflix uses FreeBSD in production on parts of its infrastructure. Those two alone are pretty nice success stories. And in addition to those are countless other companies quietly running FreeBSD on their servers.
- _2z1p 3y ago
  The Nintendo Switch is based on FreeBSD as well. Also Juniper Networks and several other enterprise networking equipment manufacturers make extensive use of FreeBSD in their products. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_FreeBSD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_Free...
  - Lutzb 3y ago
    The switch kernel / Horizon/NX is not based on FreeBSD. This has been debunked over and over. The wikipedia list is not correct in that regard. see e.g. https://youtu.be/Ec4NgWRE8ik?t=700 https://youtu.be/Ec4NgWRE8ik?t=700 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27109219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27109219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17534593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17534593
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      Thanks, I stand corrected on the Nintendo Switch!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
DeathArrow 3y ago
macOS is based on FreeBSD.
- qbrass 3y ago
  While it has a bunch of FreeBSD code stuffed into it, it's not actually based on it.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Yeah I hear this statement a lot too but macos is based on nextstep much more than it was on FreeBSD. Of course nextstep borrowed some userland from FreeBSD and I think this is where the confusion originates. The actual kernel is totally different though.
    - ybloviator 3y ago
      And I think the userland got a bit of a refresh from current FreeBSD when OS-X came out.
    - monocasa 3y ago
      Eh, sort of. NextStep was more 4.4BSD based. MacOS trasitioned to FreeBSD elements. And the kernel space for both absolutely have a lot of BSD code, more than the Mach or IO/Kit portions last time I checked.
- AdieuToLogic 3y ago
  > macOS is based on FreeBSD. Regarding OS-X/macOS: The fundamental services and primitives of the OS X kernel are based on Mach 3.0. Apple has modified and extended Mach to better meet OS X functional and performance goals. (source: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/Mach/Mach.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da...) Some portions of the OS-X/macOS kernel are based on FreeBSD however: The BSD portion of the OS X kernel is derived primarily from FreeBSD ... (source: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/BSD/BSD.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000905-CH214-TPXREF101 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da...) As the above states: The BSD component of the OS X kernel is complex. It is correct to say some parts of OS-X/macOS are based on FreeBSD, but not to the point of making an unconditional assertion. As to user-land utilities, many are the same as found in a FreeBSD distribution.
ybloviator 3y ago
With heavy use in Netflix's CDN resulting in something like more than 15% of internet traffic being delivered by FreeBSD, that's some kind of success I imagine.

Frankly, the fact that it survived 30 years (and is still very actively used and developed and deployed) counts as success in my mind.

pjmlp 3y ago

Being used as foundation for PlayStation OS, Netflix and others. Being available alongside Linux distributions as official supported OS on major cloud vendors. Maybe the contributions to upstream could be better, but that is the choice they decided to make.

pseudonym0us 3y ago
>Being used as foundation for PlayStation OS, Netflix and others. Isn't that thanks to its license? They literally can be used in closed source software without a word of credit.
- throw0101c 3y ago
  Netflix gives back quite a lot. You'll see "Sponsored by: Netfix" quite often in commit messages: * https://www.freshsource.org/commits.php https://www.freshsource.org/commits.php There isn't much special secret sauce that Netflix has at the OS layer of things, so there's not much reason for them to keep the patches in-house (and then have to maintain as the public source rolls forward). Other vendors that give back are Dell EMC Isilon (keeping their OneFS code private), Juniper, Netgate, etc. Sony is unique in that it was a one-time fork, and now that the product is out there's not much churn in things. Most vendors have learned that keeping things in-house just causes pain down the road when you have to re-base with the latest FreeBSD release.
  - monocasa 3y ago
    From what I've heard, they use FreeBSD pretty much just in their CDN appliances. Apparently their application servers are mainly Linux. There's a lot of weird reasons why you'd use FreeBSD in storage appliances that I have mixed feelings about.
  - Freaky 3y ago
    https://freshbsd.org/freebsd?q=%22Sponsored+by+Netflix%22 https://freshbsd.org/freebsd?q=%22Sponsored+by+Netflix%22 3,975 commits.
- Zambyte 3y ago
  > They literally can be used in closed source software without a word of credit. This is not true of any of the "acceptable licenses" listed by FreeBSD. https://www.freebsd.org/internal/software-license/ https://www.freebsd.org/internal/software-license/ See: the clauses saying "must reproduce/retain the above copyright".
  - pseudonym0us 3y ago
    >See: the clauses saying "must reproduce/retain the above copyright". Yeah, you will see the copyright if you are working at the company. Outsiders would never know it's a fork.
    - Zambyte 3y ago
      Read the licenses more closely.
      - pseudonym0us 3y ago
        Work in a project with BSD-licensed stuff.
        Zambyte 3y ago
        If you're fine with violating the license, then there is nothing stopping you from closing the source to GPL licensed software without a word of credit. I'm not sure what your point is.
        pseudonym0us 3y ago
        No need to violate the license, just close the source and no outsider would know it's a fork.
        Zambyte 3y ago
        See clause 2 of both BSD licenses.
throw0101c 3y ago
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_FreeBSD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_Free...

codetrotter 3y ago

Sony based the OSes for PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 5 on FreeBSD. Netflix uses FreeBSD in production on parts of its infrastructure. Those two alone are pretty nice success stories. And in addition to those are countless other companies quietly running FreeBSD on their servers.

_2z1p 3y ago
The Nintendo Switch is based on FreeBSD as well. Also Juniper Networks and several other enterprise networking equipment manufacturers make extensive use of FreeBSD in their products. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_FreeBSD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_Free...
- Lutzb 3y ago
  The switch kernel / Horizon/NX is not based on FreeBSD. This has been debunked over and over. The wikipedia list is not correct in that regard. see e.g. https://youtu.be/Ec4NgWRE8ik?t=700 https://youtu.be/Ec4NgWRE8ik?t=700 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27109219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27109219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17534593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17534593
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    Thanks, I stand corrected on the Nintendo Switch!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

DeathArrow 3y ago

macOS is based on FreeBSD.

qbrass 3y ago
While it has a bunch of FreeBSD code stuffed into it, it's not actually based on it.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Yeah I hear this statement a lot too but macos is based on nextstep much more than it was on FreeBSD. Of course nextstep borrowed some userland from FreeBSD and I think this is where the confusion originates. The actual kernel is totally different though.
  - ybloviator 3y ago
    And I think the userland got a bit of a refresh from current FreeBSD when OS-X came out.
  - monocasa 3y ago
    Eh, sort of. NextStep was more 4.4BSD based. MacOS trasitioned to FreeBSD elements. And the kernel space for both absolutely have a lot of BSD code, more than the Mach or IO/Kit portions last time I checked.
AdieuToLogic 3y ago
> macOS is based on FreeBSD. Regarding OS-X/macOS: The fundamental services and primitives of the OS X kernel are based on Mach 3.0. Apple has modified and extended Mach to better meet OS X functional and performance goals. (source: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/Mach/Mach.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da...) Some portions of the OS-X/macOS kernel are based on FreeBSD however: The BSD portion of the OS X kernel is derived primarily from FreeBSD ... (source: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/BSD/BSD.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000905-CH214-TPXREF101 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da...) As the above states: The BSD component of the OS X kernel is complex. It is correct to say some parts of OS-X/macOS are based on FreeBSD, but not to the point of making an unconditional assertion. As to user-land utilities, many are the same as found in a FreeBSD distribution.

ybloviator 3y ago

With heavy use in Netflix's CDN resulting in something like more than 15% of internet traffic being delivered by FreeBSD, that's some kind of success I imagine.