6 ms·

Mothers attacked by baseball-bat wielding children in San Francisco

39 points by qwertyuiop_ 3y ago

wrycoder 3y ago
https://archive.is/bKcOE https://archive.is/bKcOE
jstarfish 3y ago
[flagged]
- joshstrange 3y ago
  Expanded quote: > Rafael Mandelman, who sits on the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, which is responsible for legislating, said there are a growing number of children “doing these really awful things”. > “I think, what happened with kids not being in school, I think there may be something going on with that, that we’re going to be experiencing for a while”, he said. > He added: “Those couple of years where school was erratic or non-existent, where everyone was under stress, parents and caregivers were under stress. That was probably impacting vulnerable communities more anyway. Sociologically. who knows what was going on, but I would not be surprised if we are going to be experiencing the lingering impacts of that for a generation.” This is very clearly a "cover your ass" move, the hand-wavy "it's due to the pandemic" is just an easy thing to hide behind instead of actually doing anything about it. Even if it was "due" to the pandemic (I doubt that) it's a shitty non-answer, it doesn't matter what caused it, you need to fix it and you aren't doing that Mr. Mandelman.
- mock-possum 3y ago
  The aim is not to excuse the behavior, but to identify contributing factors so they can be addressed, reducing the risk of further harm.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    Right, but there's a time and a place for that. An initial press release is neither. Right now, your mother/wife/girlfriend [in SF] is subject to being beaten in the street like a stray dog, for want of a cell phone. The contributing factors helpfully put forth are (a) COVID was hard on everybody, and (b) school's out for the summer, so the kids don't have anything else to do right now except commit violent crimes.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > Right now, your mother/wife/girlfriend [in SF] is subject to being beaten in the street like a stray dog, for want of a cell phone. Right now, your mother/wife/girlfriend is not being beaten. Wouldn't you want to ensure they were not subjected to that threat by actually identifying addressing the root causes that lead to this? That's the problem with these false appeals to morality. They actually have no relation with actual protection or morality. It sounds more like cheap ploys to persecute and punish others.
    - bob-09 3y ago
      Given the short attention spans of today and the unlikeliness that your audience will remember to come back for your follow up communication, I’d say an initial press release is a good time and place to remind folks that there’s a bigger issue at play and this is just one example of it. If letting the bigger issue go ignored and unaddressed means more children will act like this, they have a duty to mention the threat to the public.
- rewmie 3y ago
  > (...) to label a ruthless gang of children wielding baseball bats a vulnerable community. I'm not sure the text you read says what you think it said. I think it's clear and obvious that "vulnerable community" refers to communities at risk of developing antisocial and outright violent behavior towards society as a whole. These are communities whose members are so excluded and isolated from everyone around it, and so deprived of basic needs, that they end up being hostile to it. This does not mean that baseball-wielding mobs are inocent snow flakes. How many children do you know that turned out wielding baseball bats against passer-bys? Do you think they were born eager to attack everyone around them? Why do you think these kids succumbed to that? If you saw other kids in similar situations but yet to go down a similar path, would you disagree with the "vulnerable" tag?
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    I know what it means and stand by my point. My sympathies do not lie with street urchins who batter women. We've got an unarmed and defenseless woman pushing a baby across the street. Then we've got a mob of child thugs beating on her with baseball bats, explicitly stealing the very thing she would need to use to call for help and leaving both a woman and baby for dead. This is beyond sadistic. Addressing what drove these children to these ends should not be anybody's primary concern, especially in a press release ahead of doing anything about protecting the (textbook) vulnerable women bleeding out in the streets. Half the country just rescinded their right to abort birthing these goddamn hellspawn. Instead of police and EMTs responding to the situation, we have self-appointed social workers doing more hand-wringing about the welfare of the assailants than the actual victims. > If you saw other kids in similar situations but yet to go down a similar path, would you disagree with the "vulnerable" tag? Yes. I've even known privileged kids who bully, assault and steal shit from others. Money, whether daddy was around, molestation stories, none of this shit seems to actually affect outcomes as much as we try to excuse the behavior. The only thing that scales with wealth is willingness to use manipulation/deception in place of raw violence. Elizabeth Holmes and Suge Knight are equally manipulative, differing only in their methods. An education and privileged background taught Holmes how to use words instead of threats. I don't believe it is (some kids are just wired for APD/ODD), but to the extent that this is a learned behavior, it would behoove us to make an example of violent children with extreme prejudice, not coddle them. Let the rest learn appropriate behavior by proximity. There's a reason every stupid TikTok challenge gets traction-- the audience never sees the consequences.
- jasonmp85 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    ?
  - dang 3y ago
    We've banned this account for repeatedly and egregiously breaking the site guidelines. You can't do that here, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- mola 3y ago
  Not a press release. You have no idea what question this quote was an answer to. Obviously the vulnerable community is not the criminals, it's the poor and neglected communities they came from. A sort of state that is very much an explanation for a lot of violent crime. Only in America do you ignore social collapse until it becomes a crime wave...
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
joshstrange 3y ago
> It transpired another mother had been attacked, with the same getaway car, but this time she was punched in the face. Is this correct english? I'm far from perfect but that seems like it's missing a word or two around "transpired". I know what "transpired" means but I've never seen it used like this. At the end of the day the police are refusing to do their jobs (shocker, what's new). Every interaction I've had with the police goes pretty much like this, they don't care, they aren't interested, lots of victim blaming, and/or pretending there is nothing they can do about it when that's patently false. You can do their whole job for them and give them step-by-step instructions on how to address an issue and they are still too lazy to lift a finger.
- mock-possum 3y ago
  They mean “it just so happened that” or “it turned out that” or “come to find out,” etc - ‘transpired’ is understandable, but probably not the most accessible way of phrasing it.
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    Yeah, I get what they meant, it just felt out of place in the article. It's the first sentence in a section/paragraph, it just felt out of place and left me wondering if I missed something.
JohnClark1337 3y ago
[dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
1letterunixname 3y ago
Move to an area where you can legally carry a CCW. If unable, CCW anyhow because the state has abdicated its duty to protect citizens. I don't advise seeking conflict, but I advocate the inalienable right to defend one's life. When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away if they ever decide to get off their lazy behinds. This means everyone ought to be prepared to defend themselves at all times. To not be prepared is an invitation to make themselves a victim.
- more_corn 3y ago
  You know what San Francisco does punish? Gun ownership. Try that in Sf and you’re going down. Last I checked the number of CCW permits issued by SF can be counted on one hand. I guarantee if you draw a gun and defend yourself in SF you go to prison.

39 points by qwertyuiop_ 3y ago

wrycoder 3y ago

https://archive.is/bKcOE https://archive.is/bKcOE

jstarfish 3y ago

[flagged]

joshstrange 3y ago
Expanded quote: > Rafael Mandelman, who sits on the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, which is responsible for legislating, said there are a growing number of children “doing these really awful things”. > “I think, what happened with kids not being in school, I think there may be something going on with that, that we’re going to be experiencing for a while”, he said. > He added: “Those couple of years where school was erratic or non-existent, where everyone was under stress, parents and caregivers were under stress. That was probably impacting vulnerable communities more anyway. Sociologically. who knows what was going on, but I would not be surprised if we are going to be experiencing the lingering impacts of that for a generation.” This is very clearly a "cover your ass" move, the hand-wavy "it's due to the pandemic" is just an easy thing to hide behind instead of actually doing anything about it. Even if it was "due" to the pandemic (I doubt that) it's a shitty non-answer, it doesn't matter what caused it, you need to fix it and you aren't doing that Mr. Mandelman.
mock-possum 3y ago
The aim is not to excuse the behavior, but to identify contributing factors so they can be addressed, reducing the risk of further harm.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  Right, but there's a time and a place for that. An initial press release is neither. Right now, your mother/wife/girlfriend [in SF] is subject to being beaten in the street like a stray dog, for want of a cell phone. The contributing factors helpfully put forth are (a) COVID was hard on everybody, and (b) school's out for the summer, so the kids don't have anything else to do right now except commit violent crimes.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > Right now, your mother/wife/girlfriend [in SF] is subject to being beaten in the street like a stray dog, for want of a cell phone. Right now, your mother/wife/girlfriend is not being beaten. Wouldn't you want to ensure they were not subjected to that threat by actually identifying addressing the root causes that lead to this? That's the problem with these false appeals to morality. They actually have no relation with actual protection or morality. It sounds more like cheap ploys to persecute and punish others.
  - bob-09 3y ago
    Given the short attention spans of today and the unlikeliness that your audience will remember to come back for your follow up communication, I’d say an initial press release is a good time and place to remind folks that there’s a bigger issue at play and this is just one example of it. If letting the bigger issue go ignored and unaddressed means more children will act like this, they have a duty to mention the threat to the public.
rewmie 3y ago
> (...) to label a ruthless gang of children wielding baseball bats a vulnerable community. I'm not sure the text you read says what you think it said. I think it's clear and obvious that "vulnerable community" refers to communities at risk of developing antisocial and outright violent behavior towards society as a whole. These are communities whose members are so excluded and isolated from everyone around it, and so deprived of basic needs, that they end up being hostile to it. This does not mean that baseball-wielding mobs are inocent snow flakes. How many children do you know that turned out wielding baseball bats against passer-bys? Do you think they were born eager to attack everyone around them? Why do you think these kids succumbed to that? If you saw other kids in similar situations but yet to go down a similar path, would you disagree with the "vulnerable" tag?
- jstarfish 3y ago
  I know what it means and stand by my point. My sympathies do not lie with street urchins who batter women. We've got an unarmed and defenseless woman pushing a baby across the street. Then we've got a mob of child thugs beating on her with baseball bats, explicitly stealing the very thing she would need to use to call for help and leaving both a woman and baby for dead. This is beyond sadistic. Addressing what drove these children to these ends should not be anybody's primary concern, especially in a press release ahead of doing anything about protecting the (textbook) vulnerable women bleeding out in the streets. Half the country just rescinded their right to abort birthing these goddamn hellspawn. Instead of police and EMTs responding to the situation, we have self-appointed social workers doing more hand-wringing about the welfare of the assailants than the actual victims. > If you saw other kids in similar situations but yet to go down a similar path, would you disagree with the "vulnerable" tag? Yes. I've even known privileged kids who bully, assault and steal shit from others. Money, whether daddy was around, molestation stories, none of this shit seems to actually affect outcomes as much as we try to excuse the behavior. The only thing that scales with wealth is willingness to use manipulation/deception in place of raw violence. Elizabeth Holmes and Suge Knight are equally manipulative, differing only in their methods. An education and privileged background taught Holmes how to use words instead of threats. I don't believe it is (some kids are just wired for APD/ODD), but to the extent that this is a learned behavior, it would behoove us to make an example of violent children with extreme prejudice, not coddle them. Let the rest learn appropriate behavior by proximity. There's a reason every stupid TikTok challenge gets traction-- the audience never sees the consequences.
jasonmp85 3y ago
[flagged]
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  ?
- dang 3y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly and egregiously breaking the site guidelines. You can't do that here, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
mola 3y ago
Not a press release. You have no idea what question this quote was an answer to. Obviously the vulnerable community is not the criminals, it's the poor and neglected communities they came from. A sort of state that is very much an explanation for a lot of violent crime. Only in America do you ignore social collapse until it becomes a crime wave...
dang 3y ago
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

joshstrange 3y ago

> It transpired another mother had been attacked, with the same getaway car, but this time she was punched in the face. Is this correct english? I'm far from perfect but that seems like it's missing a word or two around "transpired". I know what "transpired" means but I've never seen it used like this. At the end of the day the police are refusing to do their jobs (shocker, what's new). Every interaction I've had with the police goes pretty much like this, they don't care, they aren't interested, lots of victim blaming, and/or pretending there is nothing they can do about it when that's patently false. You can do their whole job for them and give them step-by-step instructions on how to address an issue and they are still too lazy to lift a finger.

mock-possum 3y ago
They mean “it just so happened that” or “it turned out that” or “come to find out,” etc - ‘transpired’ is understandable, but probably not the most accessible way of phrasing it.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  Yeah, I get what they meant, it just felt out of place in the article. It's the first sentence in a section/paragraph, it just felt out of place and left me wondering if I missed something.

JohnClark1337 3y ago

[dead]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

1letterunixname 3y ago

Move to an area where you can legally carry a CCW. If unable, CCW anyhow because the state has abdicated its duty to protect citizens. I don't advise seeking conflict, but I advocate the inalienable right to defend one's life. When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away if they ever decide to get off their lazy behinds. This means everyone ought to be prepared to defend themselves at all times. To not be prepared is an invitation to make themselves a victim.

more_corn 3y ago
You know what San Francisco does punish? Gun ownership. Try that in Sf and you’re going down. Last I checked the number of CCW permits issued by SF can be counted on one hand. I guarantee if you draw a gun and defend yourself in SF you go to prison.