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Maybe I'm missing your point, but from what I gather, no one should be whining about unpaid overtime because you don't think programmers have social lives and t
by cujo 15y ago
Maybe I'm missing your point, but from what I gather, no one should be whining about unpaid overtime because you don't think programmers have social lives and their time is better spent working for free.
Have you heard the expression, "Speak for yourself"? It applies to you here.
- cantrevealname 15y agoBut the OP is speaking to all software developers, and I'm offering an alternative viewpoint. > no one should be whining about unpaid overtime Do I think that I and other programmers should be paid for overtime? Yes, of course I do. I would gladly accept payment. My point is that this complaint about unpaid programmer time is becoming a recurring theme, as if it's a huge and terrible problem. What's next: programmers forming a union like Detroit auto workers.
- mikeash 15y agoWhat's wrong with forming a union?
- Drbble 15y agoOne thing wrong is that programming is not homogeneous work, and unionization works better when different employees' work are completely substitutible. Otherwise you end up in a "market for lemons" race to the bottom in work quality situation.
- nagrom 15y agoI'm curious...I haven't thought about this much at all and I've no experience in it, but your assertion doesn't seem obvious to me. Can you back it up with examples?
- _delirium 15y agoThere are a number of uniform-ish things that I wouldn't mind an advocacy group handling. For example, I think as an industry we could get better terms in employment agreements, e.g. less onerous noncompetes, claims to own out-of-work IP, and no-contact rules, if employers had to negotiate with a union over those things, instead of every individual employee having to fight an uphill battle to strike out lines in the agreement. Although an alternative, seen in California, is to bargain at the really collective level and deal with it through legislation that outlaws some kinds of terms entirely.
- jt2190 15y ago[Warning: This question may seem like a troll... I'm just trying to provoke a little more thinking about the pros and cons of unions as they apply to programming.] Would a union allow it's members to contribute to open source projects? Especially those used in commercial products?
- mikeash 15y agoI can't see many programmers joining a union that didn't allow members to contribute to open source. Remember, a union isn't some independent entity that rises up and dictates terms, it's simply a collection of its members. The organization can become corrupted if you're not careful, but there's certainly no reason to assume it would be here.