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> The killing of a 17-year-old of North African descent One nuance picked up by Polish media - the car had Polish license plates. It's a scam disguised as an i
by expertentipp 3y ago
> The killing of a 17-year-old of North African descent
One nuance picked up by Polish media - the car had Polish license plates. It's a scam disguised as an investment. Well off people get legit car lease for a high end car, then are baited to "rent it" abroad for a monthly payment. Sometimes receive multiple months upfront payment. Then car "vanishes", while of course physically driving with original license plates on the French roads, and the payments stop. Basically car version of "buy an apartment with a mortgage and rent it, the tenant will pay your mortgage, after X years you have an apartment for free". The victims are people who are even more greedy than well off. The 17 years old was likely linked to drug dealing and to financial scam, driving recklessly and running away from police.
- pdar4123 3y agoWhat is your point? He deserved to be murdered? This seems irrelevant, “he likely was maybe guilty of something…” and?
- expertentipp 3y ago17 years old driving recklessly a sport car with foreign license plates, running away from the police. The situation strongly points he is linked to drug dealing, financial scam, car thievery, or all of them. What measures are expected in such situation, what was he expecting to happen?
- q87b 3y agoNone of these alleged offenses justify punishment without a trial. None of them justify death.
- stronglikedan 3y agoDeath may not be justified, but neither were his actions. He put himself in a position where this could be an outcome. I'm not saying it was justified, but it did start with him, not the police. The mere act of skydiving doesn't justify death, but it is a possible outcome nonetheless.
- hagbarth 3y agoI live in a country where being shot by the police absolutely _could not_ be an outcome unless you pose an immediate danger.
- giraffe_lady 3y agoPolice aren't a force a nature. A cop made a decision here too.
- TuringNYC 3y ago>> The mere act of skydiving doesn't justify death, but it is a possible outcome nonetheless. Similarly, the mere act of driving with a broken tail-light doesn't justify death, but it is a possible outcome. Now...if someone comes and shoots you and kills you, that doesn't make it right. Similarly, if someone comes and shoots a sky-diver and kills them, that is also not right, even if there was a possibility of death.
- aloisdg 3y agoNot being murder.
- hagbarth 3y ago> What measures are expected in such situation Catch him and run a due process.
- proxysna 3y ago> The situation strongly points he is linked to drug dealing, financial scam, car thievery How does it point to that? And does that justify murder?
- expertentipp 3y agoFew weeks ago a Polish man was choked to death by 10 Dutch police officers [1] for...running away on a bicycle, and no on bat an eye. I guess this is the new normal? [1] https://nltimes.nl/2023/06/10/32-year-old-man-dies-arrest-stun-gun-rotterdam https://nltimes.nl/2023/06/10/32-year-old-man-dies-arrest-st...
- proxysna 3y agoDoes that mean that other deaths should not be protested?
- self_awareness 3y agoDoes riding a bicycle with a working chainsaw on a leash sound like a rational protesting technique? https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=qUutjFQ3y_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=qUutjFQ3y_U
- proxysna 3y agoYes. Yellow vests protested peacefully and that yielded nil. Pension reform was protested peacefully and that yielded nil. Anything that makes establishment scared is a valid protesting technique.
- self_awareness 3y agoI hope you'll manage to jump quickly enough before it will chop off your legs.
- pauldenton 3y ago
- steve76 3y ago[dead]
- mytailorisrich 3y agoWe don't know what happened and an investigation in on-going. If police draw their weapon and you try to run them over, IMHO suddenly things do not look exactly like "police brutality", for instance, so let's wait and see.
- burkaman 3y agoThis comment takes quite a journey. Evidence: the car had Polish license plates. Conclusion: The 17 years old was likely linked to drug dealing and to financial scam, driving recklessly and running away from police. It's like Sherlock Holmes deducing an entire life story from a missing shirt button. Unfortunately that isn't possible in real life and this chain of logic is absurd.
- Rapzid 3y agoBayes.
- eropple 3y agoFurther, it's literally in support of "well, it's okay to kill him, he was probably a bad egg". Which...is certainly something you can believe, but it makes you pretty awful to do so.
- michtzik 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nahel_Merzouk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nahel_Merzouk > His judicial file included 15 recorded incidents, including use of false license plates, driving without insurance, and for the sale and consumption of drugs.
- burkaman 3y agoThat might have been relevant evidence to include in the comment. However, these are unproven claims made by the same organization that murdered him and then lied about it. It is not particularly strong evidence given the context.
- eropple 3y agoWhich of those are convictions? Which of those convictions are capital offenses? Get out of here with this "he was no angel" stuff.
- MontyCarloHall 3y agoThis is corroborated by the fact that the car is a Mercedes A45 AMG, which has an MSRP of around £60k (~$/€75k) [0], and costs several hundred Euros per day to rent [1]. How could a 17 year old (who worked as a pizza delivery driver [2]) obtain such a rental, especially given that the minimum age to rent a car in France is 18? This doesn’t excuse the fact that he was killed, which is an unforgivable overreaction by the police to someone driving recklessly in what’s likely a stolen car. [0] https://www.carwow.co.uk/mercedes/amg-a45#gref https://www.carwow.co.uk/mercedes/amg-a45#gref [1] https://www.eliterent.com/luxury-car-rental/rent-sport-convertible-car/mercedes-benz-a-45-s-paris-reims/ https://www.eliterent.com/luxury-car-rental/rent-sport-conve..., https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0GeUVAXsAIVsMm?format=jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0GeUVAXsAIVsMm?format=jpg [2] https://www.ladepeche.fr/2023/06/28/nahel-tue-a-nanterre-par-un-policier-livreur-de-pizzas-joueur-de-rugby-sans-casier-qui-etait-ladolescent-11307071.php https://www.ladepeche.fr/2023/06/28/nahel-tue-a-nanterre-par...
- expertentipp 3y agoThe "rental" thing is a scam advertised to the Polish victim, on the French side it's likely organized crime all along.
- hinata08 3y agosomeone gave him the car for the day ? rich uncle ? he works while living with his parents, and he's 17, so he just spends his check on stupid things any 17 year old would want to do ? borrowing or renting a pricey car isn't a capital crime. And you can ask questions before you shoot, if you're a skilled detective.
- hinata08 3y ago>driving recklessly and running away from police. he was pulled over for driving on a bus lane (not something that is so reckless that it's punishable by death even in the most 'based' countries, in the middle east and things.) and the running away thing is being questioned, as the passenger just testified. He says police beat the driver, which made him release the brake pedal, so the car creeped forward. And anyway, police was on the side of the car, so at not point it time they were in danger. And their version of events didn't match the social media footage that has latter emerged. Justice will take time. but it's hard to see anything but over-reaction and death penalty, as the teen matched the stereotype you described.
- chongli 3y agoAnd anyway, police was on the side of the car, so at not point it time they were in danger. And their version of events didn't match the social media footage that has latter emerged. That's not true. Police officers have been killed while standing beside the driver side door during a traffic stop. All it takes is for their arm to get trapped by the open window and they can fall and get dragged or even pulled under the rear wheel.
- eropple 3y agoWere they shoving their arm through the window? Did they need to do so? Is their safety more important than that of a civilian? These are leading questions, because the answer is obvious: if the choice is a dead cop or a dead civilian, a dead cop is the only moral choice that can be made. Optimizing for the safety of the police is how you turn police into fearful, scared "warriors" who view the citizenry as their enemy, like we have in the United States. Risk is the police's business, taken intentionally and with foreknowledge on behalf of the citizenry. Or else they're bullies with badges.
- hinata08 3y agoyou can't really compare the police in the USA and the police in France. US cops are just a rogue and racist organisation, who apply their own law (mostly based on racial profiling). I think that comparing it to the police in the Philippines would be more appropriate. The victim in this case got hated by the right wing was because he was a stereotypical drug dealer who drove off, and nothing else, and they wanted the police to be able to work.
- msla 3y agoNone of that's relevant. It kinda sounds relevant if you ignore the fact the kid was killed by police officers who weren't acting in self defense, but outright saying "The police should be able to perform summary executions" doesn't play well to most people, so flood the zone with irrelevant nonsense that pushes Culture War buttons.
- expertentipp 3y agoOverreactive police it's the European new normal [1]. The same as turning blind eye on Maghreb-originating organized crime. [1] - https://nltimes.nl/2023/06/10/32-year-old-man-dies-arrest-stun-gun-rotterdam https://nltimes.nl/2023/06/10/32-year-old-man-dies-arrest-st...