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I would like to see you cycling 5 km in the Alps against the wind in the rain. Cycling is fine. I do it 7 km to the work. But only because it is flat. And only

by ceving 3y ago

I would like to see you cycling 5 km in the Alps against the wind in the rain. Cycling is fine. I do it 7 km to the work. But only because it is flat. And only when the weather is fine.

scbrg 3y ago
I've never really understood the point of comments like this. So, there are conditions where cycling isn't feasible. Sure. Does that mean people in general couldn't use bicycles more? No, of course not. Did GP suggest that everyone that lives within 5km of work must bike every day. No, not that either. For every solution it's easy to find a situation where that solution doesn't apply. So what? That doesn't mean the solution is worthless. Last I checked, the Alps didn't cover all of Germany - did they move recently?
- ceving 3y ago
  "Alps" was a pars pro toto. See here for a complete list of mountains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountain_and_hill_ranges_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountain_and_hill_rang... And this are the raining days: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1892/umfrage/staedte-in-deutschland-mit-den-meisten-regentagen/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1892/umfrage/... It is raining more than half of a year in many cities.
  - scbrg 3y ago
    Fair enough, and thanks for teaching me the term "pars pro toto". Today I was one of the lucky 10k :)
    - wizofaus 3y ago
      "Synecdoche" is probably the more common term.
- Aachen 3y ago
  > I've never really understood the point of comments like this. As a Dutchman who doesn't enjoy cycling, especially alone (for function rather than leisure), I do see their point. It's just not an alternative for me. I'll put up with it if it's <1km of flat land with safe infrastructure, but beyond that I'm opening up a public transport planner. Also in NL, most trips are >1km and/or carry more freight than fits in a backpack or on the rack (?bagagedrager) (could take the bike in hand and hang your bags from the handlebars, though). I'm happy to pay a bit extra for Climeworks to take the CO2 out of the air again that was added while building the wind turbine for my electricity-powered method of transportation. But to each their own. Cycling is also healthy, especially if we'd no longer be surrounded by combustion transportation. I'm all for bicycle infrastructure and promotion.
- wizofaus 3y ago
  I use a bike to get around pretty much whenever I can but I'd be the first to admit cars are suitable for a far wider range of journey types, and it's not exactly surprising that in most countries in the world people prefer to drive cars over riding bikes. The best we can realistically hope for is ensuring that whatever barriers exist now that discourage people from cycling (safety concerns typically being #1) are addressed and minimised. Though certainly in the case of Germany you can compare it to two of its neighbours (to the west and north) and reasonably conclude more can be done to promote cycling as a way to get around in towns and cities.
dermesser 3y ago
I'd like to see you drive your sedan through just 4 miles of Colombian Amazonas Jungle. See: Cars are impractical!
ben_w 3y ago
I'd love to see me cycling 5 km in the Alps, too. The proper Alps, not the bit I went up when trying to take an ill-advised shortcut up a minor hill a thousand kilometres into EuroVelo 15. Hardly any call for it in the context of "commuting", given the combination of low population density and low employment density.
_ph_ 3y ago
Electrically assisted bicycles are a real game changer for the short to medium commute, especially when the wind or the terrain is against you. Note that biking in the Alps isn't really a problem in Germany, more so in Switzerland or Austria. But even in the Alps the single villages are rather flat because they are built in the mountain valleys.
sweetdreamerit 3y ago
An e-bike would be the solution (not when it rains or snows, of course).
TomK32 3y ago
Oh you picked the wrong guy for your comment: I worked 10km away the winter before and got out the door at 6am, cycled to work and left a 5pm to cycle back home, often when it was dark again. It's only a question of the right outfit, not the weather, otherwise everyone on the Bahamas would cycle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdz6FeQLuHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdz6FeQLuHQ
adrianN 3y ago
I'm fine with people in the Alps taking their car when it's raining and windy. That still leaves 99% of the population who can take their E-bike for short trips.

by ceving 3y ago

I would like to see you cycling 5 km in the Alps against the wind in the rain. Cycling is fine. I do it 7 km to the work. But only because it is flat. And only when the weather is fine.

scbrg 3y ago

I've never really understood the point of comments like this. So, there are conditions where cycling isn't feasible. Sure. Does that mean people in general couldn't use bicycles more? No, of course not. Did GP suggest that everyone that lives within 5km of work must bike every day. No, not that either. For every solution it's easy to find a situation where that solution doesn't apply. So what? That doesn't mean the solution is worthless. Last I checked, the Alps didn't cover all of Germany - did they move recently?

ceving 3y ago
"Alps" was a pars pro toto. See here for a complete list of mountains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountain_and_hill_ranges_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountain_and_hill_rang... And this are the raining days: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1892/umfrage/staedte-in-deutschland-mit-den-meisten-regentagen/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1892/umfrage/... It is raining more than half of a year in many cities.
- scbrg 3y ago
  Fair enough, and thanks for teaching me the term "pars pro toto". Today I was one of the lucky 10k :)
  - wizofaus 3y ago
    "Synecdoche" is probably the more common term.
Aachen 3y ago
> I've never really understood the point of comments like this. As a Dutchman who doesn't enjoy cycling, especially alone (for function rather than leisure), I do see their point. It's just not an alternative for me. I'll put up with it if it's <1km of flat land with safe infrastructure, but beyond that I'm opening up a public transport planner. Also in NL, most trips are >1km and/or carry more freight than fits in a backpack or on the rack (?bagagedrager) (could take the bike in hand and hang your bags from the handlebars, though). I'm happy to pay a bit extra for Climeworks to take the CO2 out of the air again that was added while building the wind turbine for my electricity-powered method of transportation. But to each their own. Cycling is also healthy, especially if we'd no longer be surrounded by combustion transportation. I'm all for bicycle infrastructure and promotion.
wizofaus 3y ago
I use a bike to get around pretty much whenever I can but I'd be the first to admit cars are suitable for a far wider range of journey types, and it's not exactly surprising that in most countries in the world people prefer to drive cars over riding bikes. The best we can realistically hope for is ensuring that whatever barriers exist now that discourage people from cycling (safety concerns typically being #1) are addressed and minimised. Though certainly in the case of Germany you can compare it to two of its neighbours (to the west and north) and reasonably conclude more can be done to promote cycling as a way to get around in towns and cities.

dermesser 3y ago

I'd like to see you drive your sedan through just 4 miles of Colombian Amazonas Jungle. See: Cars are impractical!

ben_w 3y ago

I'd love to see me cycling 5 km in the Alps, too. The proper Alps, not the bit I went up when trying to take an ill-advised shortcut up a minor hill a thousand kilometres into EuroVelo 15. Hardly any call for it in the context of "commuting", given the combination of low population density and low employment density.

_ph_ 3y ago

Electrically assisted bicycles are a real game changer for the short to medium commute, especially when the wind or the terrain is against you. Note that biking in the Alps isn't really a problem in Germany, more so in Switzerland or Austria. But even in the Alps the single villages are rather flat because they are built in the mountain valleys.

sweetdreamerit 3y ago

An e-bike would be the solution (not when it rains or snows, of course).

TomK32 3y ago

Oh you picked the wrong guy for your comment: I worked 10km away the winter before and got out the door at 6am, cycled to work and left a 5pm to cycle back home, often when it was dark again. It's only a question of the right outfit, not the weather, otherwise everyone on the Bahamas would cycle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdz6FeQLuHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdz6FeQLuHQ

adrianN 3y ago

I'm fine with people in the Alps taking their car when it's raining and windy. That still leaves 99% of the population who can take their E-bike for short trips.