4 ms·

The weirdest thing is that folks paying 6 figures learn about these safety mechanisms only after sinking to the bottom of the ocean. It's a sensible safety mech

The weirdest thing is that folks paying 6 figures learn about these safety mechanisms only after sinking to the bottom of the ocean. It's a sensible safety mechanism to have, but shouldn't there be a briefing where participants learn about something like that?

sokoloff 3y ago
Are the participants passengers or crew? Crew, I'd expect to have full systems understanding of the sub, how it works under normal operation, and how to modify how it works under abnormal/emergency/degraded operation. An early pilot said, “Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.” Space and submarine operations are even less forgiving than sea surface or aviation. Almost all of my transition training into more advanced aircraft has been systems-related (like 90+% systems and 10-% operation). I feel like the purchasers of these experiences were basically passengers. I don't expect the occupant of 2A on an airliner to understand anything more about the safety systems than where the exits are and how to put on a mask if it appears in front of them.
- johnwalkr 3y ago
  They were called "mission specialists" to try and avoid liability of taking "passengers."
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    If they're being paid they are are crew or mission specialists, if they are paying they are passengers.
- PUSH_AX 3y ago
  I've read, that for legal reasons, OceanGate made them "crew" for the dives. My understanding was that it was a measure to reduce the liability against the company in the instance something went wrong.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Such paper tricks should lead to higher claims and higher fines.
    - juujian 3y ago
      I don't think the CEO cares about that anymore
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Not in this case, but in other cases. Though, claims wise I wouldn't want to be a part of Spencer Composites right now.
- zirgs 3y ago
  According to OceanGate - those passengers are part of the crew. They refer to passengers as "mission specialists".
yardie 3y ago
> but shouldn't there be a briefing where participants learn about something like that? They are in a sealed tube underwater where most of the systems are automated. Practically, the only thing they can do is sit down and hang onto their butts. Even the press interviews reveal a simple button to submerge or ascend. Beyond the simple controller for limited maneuverability there isn't much anyone can do from inside the capsule. For untrained crew or passengers this is probably the best setup. But there should have been a lot more critical engineering involved before even a single crew dived.
hotpotamus 3y ago
Did you know that the planes you fly on essentially have a windmill in the event of a total power loss[0]? I don't think it's common knowledge and I don't think there's any reason that it would matter if the passengers were aware of it. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine

sokoloff 3y ago

Are the participants passengers or crew? Crew, I'd expect to have full systems understanding of the sub, how it works under normal operation, and how to modify how it works under abnormal/emergency/degraded operation. An early pilot said, “Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.” Space and submarine operations are even less forgiving than sea surface or aviation. Almost all of my transition training into more advanced aircraft has been systems-related (like 90+% systems and 10-% operation). I feel like the purchasers of these experiences were basically passengers. I don't expect the occupant of 2A on an airliner to understand anything more about the safety systems than where the exits are and how to put on a mask if it appears in front of them.

johnwalkr 3y ago
They were called "mission specialists" to try and avoid liability of taking "passengers."
- jacquesm 3y ago
  If they're being paid they are are crew or mission specialists, if they are paying they are passengers.
PUSH_AX 3y ago
I've read, that for legal reasons, OceanGate made them "crew" for the dives. My understanding was that it was a measure to reduce the liability against the company in the instance something went wrong.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Such paper tricks should lead to higher claims and higher fines.
  - juujian 3y ago
    I don't think the CEO cares about that anymore
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Not in this case, but in other cases. Though, claims wise I wouldn't want to be a part of Spencer Composites right now.
zirgs 3y ago
According to OceanGate - those passengers are part of the crew. They refer to passengers as "mission specialists".

yardie 3y ago

> but shouldn't there be a briefing where participants learn about something like that? They are in a sealed tube underwater where most of the systems are automated. Practically, the only thing they can do is sit down and hang onto their butts. Even the press interviews reveal a simple button to submerge or ascend. Beyond the simple controller for limited maneuverability there isn't much anyone can do from inside the capsule. For untrained crew or passengers this is probably the best setup. But there should have been a lot more critical engineering involved before even a single crew dived.

hotpotamus 3y ago

Did you know that the planes you fly on essentially have a windmill in the event of a total power loss[0]? I don't think it's common knowledge and I don't think there's any reason that it would matter if the passengers were aware of it. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine