4 ms·

I really don't understand the lack of a backup here. I understand they had a budget, but that budget couldn't include a spare battery or two? They also didn't a

by tedivm 3y ago

I really don't understand the lack of a backup here. I understand they had a budget, but that budget couldn't include a spare battery or two? They also didn't appear to test the batteries at all before going down? My high school robotics team had more redundancy than this sub did.

juujian 3y ago
Sign me up, how much for a tour to the titanic with your high school robotics team? :)
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  One way trip, a $5000 donation. Our team could use swerve drive and that’ll cover the parts.
  - OmegaMetor 3y ago
    Finally, the water game.
EMM_386 3y ago
> explained that one of the batteries went kaput The article does mention "one" of them went out, implying they had more than one. As to why that was not sufficient to release the balast, that's another question.
TheBigSalad 3y ago
There was a backup. Weights on a tether that would dissolve and force the sub to surface in 24 hours with no power at all.
- zo1 3y ago
  Wouldnt the ascent decompression kill the occupants anyways? Getting them up to surface isn't the saving grace to something like a battery failing. Maybe I'm missing something? Edit. Thank you for the responses people, I learned something new today!
  - kobalsky 3y ago
    There's no decompression sickness on those subs. The inside is kept at a similar pressure as the surface.
  - inconceivable 3y ago
    the whole point of the pressure chamber is that it remained at 1 atmosphere. until it failed.
  - mechhacker 3y ago
    No. Subs are different from scuba. They are kept at atmospheric pressure. For scuba, you are breathing pressurized gasses much higher than 1atm at depth, which causes decompression issues.
- tedivm 3y ago
  That's not a backup, that's a contingency. I'm saying why not put another fully charged battery in the sub so it would be less likely to be completely unpowered at some point.
  - TheBigSalad 3y ago
    I don't know anything about submarines, but it doesn't seem crazy. Maybe they figure the battery has a 1 in 100 chance of failure and the sub can only make 50 trips in it's lifetime and it wasn't worth it considering the other systems like the weights and the hydrolic something or other that they actually used to get to the surface. Everything is a trade off and the extra battery would have cost money, take up space, could catch on fire, etc.
kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
The report is that college interns designed the electronics. People with no experience in building reliable systems with redundancy. It was basically all hobbyist SBCs with zero professional design features.
- zo1 3y ago
  At what point do we start taking the "talking points" from the so called conspiracy theorists seriously? For all we know they did hire sub par individuals and because it was under the guise of DEI or ageism no one wants to touch it with a 10 ft pole.
  - jrm4 3y ago
    The impulse to bring "DEI" into this. Sigh.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      The kind of people who think to add a backup aren't inspirational: https://nypost.com/2023/06/21/why-stockton-rush-didnt-hire-50-year-old-white-guys-for-titanic-sub-tours/ https://nypost.com/2023/06/21/why-stockton-rush-didnt-hire-5...
      - rideontime 3y ago
        This is such obvious PR spin from a guy who was just looking to save a buck, but the "anti-woke" crowd is eating it right up.
        zo1 3y ago
        Then let's find these employees and audit their credentials. Let's see all oceangate emails. Let's check all their internal testing reports and every single document. Let's pick it apart in the open. If it's PR spin and fake outrage, then it'll be obvious.
tudorw 3y ago
complex systems don't always get more reliable by adding failsafes, there is a complexity wall of systemic failure.
- pcdoodle 3y ago
  Having an identical, unplugged, fully charged battery with a transfer switch, doesn't really add much complexity.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    That depends on where the batteries are located. In this case they are on the other side of the pressure hull. You then get to decide if you want your transfer switch to sit on this side or the other and how you get to pass the signal to switch over from the one to the other (maybe you could automate that). In a design such as this one nothing is really simple and even a silly switch or relay can add quite a bit of complexity. The pressures you are dealing with are immense, it's not as if you're going to run an extra wire with a grommet through the pressure hull on a moments notice. If the cable duct has already been sealed then you're out of luck unless you added spare wiring and even that isn't trivial with this much pressure on the other side of it.
    - pcdoodle 3y ago
      Who said anything about retrofit? This should have been done from the very beginning. I still can't believe they never tested a round trip without people to the depth they were going.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Ah, I interpreted the 'add' as 'after the fact'. My bad, apologies.
itsoktocry 3y ago
>I understand they had a budget, but that budget couldn't include a spare battery or two? Everything is a tradeoff. Why not 20 spare batteries? Because it's too heavy.

by tedivm 3y ago

juujian 3y ago

Sign me up, how much for a tour to the titanic with your high school robotics team? :)

Waterluvian 3y ago
One way trip, a $5000 donation. Our team could use swerve drive and that’ll cover the parts.
- OmegaMetor 3y ago
  Finally, the water game.

EMM_386 3y ago

> explained that one of the batteries went kaput The article does mention "one" of them went out, implying they had more than one. As to why that was not sufficient to release the balast, that's another question.

TheBigSalad 3y ago

There was a backup. Weights on a tether that would dissolve and force the sub to surface in 24 hours with no power at all.

zo1 3y ago
Wouldnt the ascent decompression kill the occupants anyways? Getting them up to surface isn't the saving grace to something like a battery failing. Maybe I'm missing something? Edit. Thank you for the responses people, I learned something new today!
- kobalsky 3y ago
  There's no decompression sickness on those subs. The inside is kept at a similar pressure as the surface.
- inconceivable 3y ago
  the whole point of the pressure chamber is that it remained at 1 atmosphere. until it failed.
- mechhacker 3y ago
  No. Subs are different from scuba. They are kept at atmospheric pressure. For scuba, you are breathing pressurized gasses much higher than 1atm at depth, which causes decompression issues.
tedivm 3y ago
That's not a backup, that's a contingency. I'm saying why not put another fully charged battery in the sub so it would be less likely to be completely unpowered at some point.
- TheBigSalad 3y ago
  I don't know anything about submarines, but it doesn't seem crazy. Maybe they figure the battery has a 1 in 100 chance of failure and the sub can only make 50 trips in it's lifetime and it wasn't worth it considering the other systems like the weights and the hydrolic something or other that they actually used to get to the surface. Everything is a trade off and the extra battery would have cost money, take up space, could catch on fire, etc.

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago

The report is that college interns designed the electronics. People with no experience in building reliable systems with redundancy. It was basically all hobbyist SBCs with zero professional design features.

zo1 3y ago
At what point do we start taking the "talking points" from the so called conspiracy theorists seriously? For all we know they did hire sub par individuals and because it was under the guise of DEI or ageism no one wants to touch it with a 10 ft pole.
- jrm4 3y ago
  The impulse to bring "DEI" into this. Sigh.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    The kind of people who think to add a backup aren't inspirational: https://nypost.com/2023/06/21/why-stockton-rush-didnt-hire-50-year-old-white-guys-for-titanic-sub-tours/ https://nypost.com/2023/06/21/why-stockton-rush-didnt-hire-5...
    - rideontime 3y ago
      This is such obvious PR spin from a guy who was just looking to save a buck, but the "anti-woke" crowd is eating it right up.
      - zo1 3y ago
        Then let's find these employees and audit their credentials. Let's see all oceangate emails. Let's check all their internal testing reports and every single document. Let's pick it apart in the open. If it's PR spin and fake outrage, then it'll be obvious.

tudorw 3y ago

complex systems don't always get more reliable by adding failsafes, there is a complexity wall of systemic failure.

pcdoodle 3y ago
Having an identical, unplugged, fully charged battery with a transfer switch, doesn't really add much complexity.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  That depends on where the batteries are located. In this case they are on the other side of the pressure hull. You then get to decide if you want your transfer switch to sit on this side or the other and how you get to pass the signal to switch over from the one to the other (maybe you could automate that). In a design such as this one nothing is really simple and even a silly switch or relay can add quite a bit of complexity. The pressures you are dealing with are immense, it's not as if you're going to run an extra wire with a grommet through the pressure hull on a moments notice. If the cable duct has already been sealed then you're out of luck unless you added spare wiring and even that isn't trivial with this much pressure on the other side of it.
  - pcdoodle 3y ago
    Who said anything about retrofit? This should have been done from the very beginning. I still can't believe they never tested a round trip without people to the depth they were going.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Ah, I interpreted the 'add' as 'after the fact'. My bad, apologies.

itsoktocry 3y ago

>I understand they had a budget, but that budget couldn't include a spare battery or two? Everything is a tradeoff. Why not 20 spare batteries? Because it's too heavy.