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Yeah, targeting individual transport with inefficient public transport and bicycles while restarting abandoned coal power plants and abandoning running nuclear

Yeah, targeting individual transport with inefficient public transport and bicycles while restarting abandoned coal power plants and abandoning running nuclear power plants is going to work wonderfully indeed.

sofixa 3y ago
> inefficient public transpor What do you mean inefficient? Multiple things can be done at the same time on the country scale. Improve bike infrastructure and public transit, encourage EVs for those that have to drive, decarbonise energy generation, electrify heating and industry, etc.
Moldoteck 3y ago
public transport can be efficient if done correctly and funded accordingly (Japan, Switzerland)
- fxtentacle 3y ago
  I'd like to add Singapore because they buy their excellent MRT trains from Germany.
  - Moldoteck 3y ago
    maybe, I was just in Switzerland and people said that Japan is even better in terms of transit. If Singapore has reliable prioritized public transport, then yep, it's cool. What shocked me the most is that in Swiss, all tickets for any transport can be bought in a single app, and if you don't want extra hassle, you don't even need to buy it, just press a button and the app will calculate by gps what you need to pay. This + super precise arrival times...
  - ulfw 3y ago
    Not one single kind of rolling stock in Singapore's MRT is made in Germany. Why do you just claim random things like that as if it were true? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Singapore_MRT_and_LRT_rolling_stock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Singapore_MRT_and_LRT_...
    - fxtentacle 3y ago
      Literally the 2nd item on your list is C651 made by Siemens which has design and headquarters in Munich, Germany. Also a quick Kagi search could have pointed you at "Siemens Mobility awarded contract to deliver CBTC on Singapore’s 8th & longest fully-underground MRT Cross Island Line" ;)
      - ulfw 3y ago
        Okay I give you that. I was wrong about zero. 19 trainsets out of a total of 594. 3%. And those were manufactured in Austria (like I said), not Germany. But yes Siemens is HQed in Munich. So I guess they bought them from there. True. Not sure how one can interpret "Singapore because they buy their excellent MRT trains from Germany" and then those excellent trains are a mere 3% of Singapore's trains (with the vast majority being Chinese and Japanese. Even the French trains are more than 3x as many). But hey, whatever.
one_level_deep 3y ago
The linked article might help clarify things. The percentage of power from coal and nuclear power were both down considerably: “The electricity production from lignite was down 21 percent, hard coal was down 23 percent, natural gas was down 4 percent, and nuclear declined by 57 percent, compared to 2022 values.”
malermeister 3y ago
With individual transport, you move ~2 tons of metal for a payload of one person, a weight/person ratio of 2. With high-speed rail, you move ~400 tons of metal for ~450 people, a ratio of ~0.9. [0] This does not even account for factors such as inherently more efficient transmission from steel to steel vs rubber/concrete and the more efficient electric engines of a modern train compared to the combustion engine. Neither does it account for the fact that rail goes at more than twice the speed. How is public transport the inefficient option, again? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_3
- MagnumOpus 3y ago
  You forget that most people don't live or work next to the rail station. That makes rail inefficient in the only way that matters to most people - their time. (I say that as someone who takes trains to work most days.)
  - malermeister 3y ago
    I think trains going twice as fast as cars and not being impacted by traffic goes a long way in making up for the last mile problem - even if you take a bike for that piece, overall you're gonna be much faster than if you're stuck in rush hour traffic. Plus, in the context of the looming climate catastrophe and the energy crisis caused by a war of aggression by our former primary energy supplier, that concern seems really petty anyways.
  - adrianN 3y ago
    People don't live near rail stations because we have been subsidizing cars for fifty years while letting the rail network crumble.
  - stuaxo 3y ago
    They don't ? Plenty do, or live a short bus journey away.
- ufmace 3y ago
  How is it a fair comparison to make the automobile have only one person but the rail car completely full? Rail cars are very rarely anywhere near full. Infact, they have to be run nearly empty most of the time in order to have a schedule good enough that enough people to fill the car up are willing to rely on it.

sofixa 3y ago

> inefficient public transpor What do you mean inefficient? Multiple things can be done at the same time on the country scale. Improve bike infrastructure and public transit, encourage EVs for those that have to drive, decarbonise energy generation, electrify heating and industry, etc.

Moldoteck 3y ago

public transport can be efficient if done correctly and funded accordingly (Japan, Switzerland)

fxtentacle 3y ago
I'd like to add Singapore because they buy their excellent MRT trains from Germany.
- Moldoteck 3y ago
  maybe, I was just in Switzerland and people said that Japan is even better in terms of transit. If Singapore has reliable prioritized public transport, then yep, it's cool. What shocked me the most is that in Swiss, all tickets for any transport can be bought in a single app, and if you don't want extra hassle, you don't even need to buy it, just press a button and the app will calculate by gps what you need to pay. This + super precise arrival times...
- ulfw 3y ago
  Not one single kind of rolling stock in Singapore's MRT is made in Germany. Why do you just claim random things like that as if it were true? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Singapore_MRT_and_LRT_rolling_stock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Singapore_MRT_and_LRT_...
  - fxtentacle 3y ago
    Literally the 2nd item on your list is C651 made by Siemens which has design and headquarters in Munich, Germany. Also a quick Kagi search could have pointed you at "Siemens Mobility awarded contract to deliver CBTC on Singapore’s 8th & longest fully-underground MRT Cross Island Line" ;)
    - ulfw 3y ago
      Okay I give you that. I was wrong about zero. 19 trainsets out of a total of 594. 3%. And those were manufactured in Austria (like I said), not Germany. But yes Siemens is HQed in Munich. So I guess they bought them from there. True. Not sure how one can interpret "Singapore because they buy their excellent MRT trains from Germany" and then those excellent trains are a mere 3% of Singapore's trains (with the vast majority being Chinese and Japanese. Even the French trains are more than 3x as many). But hey, whatever.

one_level_deep 3y ago

The linked article might help clarify things. The percentage of power from coal and nuclear power were both down considerably: “The electricity production from lignite was down 21 percent, hard coal was down 23 percent, natural gas was down 4 percent, and nuclear declined by 57 percent, compared to 2022 values.”

malermeister 3y ago

With individual transport, you move ~2 tons of metal for a payload of one person, a weight/person ratio of 2. With high-speed rail, you move ~400 tons of metal for ~450 people, a ratio of ~0.9. [0] This does not even account for factors such as inherently more efficient transmission from steel to steel vs rubber/concrete and the more efficient electric engines of a modern train compared to the combustion engine. Neither does it account for the fact that rail goes at more than twice the speed. How is public transport the inefficient option, again? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_3

MagnumOpus 3y ago
You forget that most people don't live or work next to the rail station. That makes rail inefficient in the only way that matters to most people - their time. (I say that as someone who takes trains to work most days.)
- malermeister 3y ago
  I think trains going twice as fast as cars and not being impacted by traffic goes a long way in making up for the last mile problem - even if you take a bike for that piece, overall you're gonna be much faster than if you're stuck in rush hour traffic. Plus, in the context of the looming climate catastrophe and the energy crisis caused by a war of aggression by our former primary energy supplier, that concern seems really petty anyways.
- adrianN 3y ago
  People don't live near rail stations because we have been subsidizing cars for fifty years while letting the rail network crumble.
- stuaxo 3y ago
  They don't ? Plenty do, or live a short bus journey away.
ufmace 3y ago
How is it a fair comparison to make the automobile have only one person but the rail car completely full? Rail cars are very rarely anywhere near full. Infact, they have to be run nearly empty most of the time in order to have a schedule good enough that enough people to fill the car up are willing to rely on it.