4 ms·

In the meantime, Switzerland is installing solar panels on train tracks [0] instead of, I don't know, people's roofs. There is so much promising tech coming out

by lopis 3y ago

In the meantime, Switzerland is installing solar panels on train tracks [0] instead of, I don't know, people's roofs. There is so much promising tech coming out in terms of energy storage and we're seeing almost zero investment from governments. Everything's backwards. [0] https://www.techspot.com/news/98944-switzerland-installing-solar-panels-gap-between-train-tracks.html https://www.techspot.com/news/98944-switzerland-installing-s...

sparkling 3y ago
Why are people so obsessed with "solar roadways" or "solar train tracks"? This is a joke, a gimmick, it makes absolutely no sense. Well, except for the startups that are getting massive subsidies and grants for these clown projects. There are still millions of open-space square meters all over the country. Think of flat-roof warehouses, supermarkets, parking facilities and more. Those places are easy to access, easy to install, easy to maintain. These train track installments however.... hard to install, require non-standardized panel sizes, non-standard wiring, special equipment, are in a dusty/dirty uncontrollable environment, maintenance is only possible in coordination with the train company. My guess is that these things are 4-5x more expensive on a per kwH basis, if you consider the total cost of ownership.
- the-dude 3y ago
  Most of the roofs you mention are not built to support load.
  - atoav 3y ago
    As someone from the Alps, I'd really see a source on that. Most alpine roofs are built to survive extreme snow loads. My father just covered his roof in solar and that roof was built in the 70s.
  - rasz 3y ago
    Thats why they are dismantled every year just before winder and rebuild after last snow melts.
  - lopis 3y ago
    Maybe in America?
- atoav 3y ago
  Solar train tracks or roadways are a dumb person's idea what innovation looks like.
- ajsnigrutin 3y ago
  Solar on roofs is a solved problem, chinese make the panels, and hundreds of locals installers install it. If you want grant money, you need something new, like a solar monorail!
  - dudeinjapan 3y ago
    The name's Lanley, Lyle Lanley. And I come before you good people tonight with an idea. Probably the greatest—Aw, it's not for you. It's more a Shelbyville idea.
- lopis 3y ago
  The people from Solar Roadways actually got support from several governments in the US. It's totally bonkers. They never had a proper functioning system. The whole idea is ridiculous and people pointed it out since the beginning. But it generated so much news that governments were so ready to jump on it. And they are STILL at it. So here we are, 10 years later, and still talking about putting solar panels in places where they will: break, get very dirty, be hard to fix and replace. We can't have good things because money and politics talk, not science. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OLnfNrCQM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OLnfNrCQM4
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  You get ad impressions from people who read the headline and think "that's a great idea", or "that's a stupid idea" or "wait, is that actually possible?" or "that sounds neat" and they all count towards the algorithm in a way that "Let's put solar on the boring places" doesn't. On a graph, the money spent or the capacity installed has never been more than a blip of a blip but it gets eyeballs.
soco 3y ago
There's a sizeable portion of the voters, also sizeable here in HN (see the discussions StartX vs SLS), which demands a minimal government, no intervention, no trust in them and all that. I guess we cannot both have the cake and eat it.
johannes1234321 3y ago
Solar panels on rail tracks are an interesting experiment, but mind that they complicated maintenance work on tracks and require quite some maintenance themselves. (Think about oil and other dirt dropping from trains; stones and small tree branches etc being thrown around with the force of the train...) But even if they are useable and beneficial: That's not an argument not to use other available space as well.
ulfw 3y ago
"The pilot project, which is expected to be completed this summer at a cost of $560,000, will see Sun-Ways use a regular train to lay down 60 solar panels on a 140-foot stretch of railway track near the city of Neuchâtel" it's not like all of Switzerland is doing this on all rail tracks. It's 60 small panels. A tiny experiment, nothing more. Who says they are "instead of, I don't know, people's roofs"?
dahfizz 3y ago
Solar on roofs kinda sucks. It's way more expensive to install and rarely at an optimal orientation. And they will get covered in snow for months out of the year depending on climate. Government money would be much better spent on a regular solar installation on the ground. Much cheaper to install and maintain.
- fomine3 3y ago
  Cutting trees to put solar panels is a unpopular idea. Roof is a free space. "Optimal" orientation isn't always optimal for grid because distributing peak output time is a good thing.

by lopis 3y ago

sparkling 3y ago

Why are people so obsessed with "solar roadways" or "solar train tracks"? This is a joke, a gimmick, it makes absolutely no sense. Well, except for the startups that are getting massive subsidies and grants for these clown projects. There are still millions of open-space square meters all over the country. Think of flat-roof warehouses, supermarkets, parking facilities and more. Those places are easy to access, easy to install, easy to maintain. These train track installments however.... hard to install, require non-standardized panel sizes, non-standard wiring, special equipment, are in a dusty/dirty uncontrollable environment, maintenance is only possible in coordination with the train company. My guess is that these things are 4-5x more expensive on a per kwH basis, if you consider the total cost of ownership.

the-dude 3y ago
Most of the roofs you mention are not built to support load.
- atoav 3y ago
  As someone from the Alps, I'd really see a source on that. Most alpine roofs are built to survive extreme snow loads. My father just covered his roof in solar and that roof was built in the 70s.
- rasz 3y ago
  Thats why they are dismantled every year just before winder and rebuild after last snow melts.
- lopis 3y ago
  Maybe in America?
atoav 3y ago
Solar train tracks or roadways are a dumb person's idea what innovation looks like.
ajsnigrutin 3y ago
Solar on roofs is a solved problem, chinese make the panels, and hundreds of locals installers install it. If you want grant money, you need something new, like a solar monorail!
- dudeinjapan 3y ago
  The name's Lanley, Lyle Lanley. And I come before you good people tonight with an idea. Probably the greatest—Aw, it's not for you. It's more a Shelbyville idea.
lopis 3y ago
The people from Solar Roadways actually got support from several governments in the US. It's totally bonkers. They never had a proper functioning system. The whole idea is ridiculous and people pointed it out since the beginning. But it generated so much news that governments were so ready to jump on it. And they are STILL at it. So here we are, 10 years later, and still talking about putting solar panels in places where they will: break, get very dirty, be hard to fix and replace. We can't have good things because money and politics talk, not science. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OLnfNrCQM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OLnfNrCQM4
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
You get ad impressions from people who read the headline and think "that's a great idea", or "that's a stupid idea" or "wait, is that actually possible?" or "that sounds neat" and they all count towards the algorithm in a way that "Let's put solar on the boring places" doesn't. On a graph, the money spent or the capacity installed has never been more than a blip of a blip but it gets eyeballs.

soco 3y ago

There's a sizeable portion of the voters, also sizeable here in HN (see the discussions StartX vs SLS), which demands a minimal government, no intervention, no trust in them and all that. I guess we cannot both have the cake and eat it.

johannes1234321 3y ago

Solar panels on rail tracks are an interesting experiment, but mind that they complicated maintenance work on tracks and require quite some maintenance themselves. (Think about oil and other dirt dropping from trains; stones and small tree branches etc being thrown around with the force of the train...) But even if they are useable and beneficial: That's not an argument not to use other available space as well.

ulfw 3y ago

"The pilot project, which is expected to be completed this summer at a cost of $560,000, will see Sun-Ways use a regular train to lay down 60 solar panels on a 140-foot stretch of railway track near the city of Neuchâtel" it's not like all of Switzerland is doing this on all rail tracks. It's 60 small panels. A tiny experiment, nothing more. Who says they are "instead of, I don't know, people's roofs"?

dahfizz 3y ago

Solar on roofs kinda sucks. It's way more expensive to install and rarely at an optimal orientation. And they will get covered in snow for months out of the year depending on climate. Government money would be much better spent on a regular solar installation on the ground. Much cheaper to install and maintain.

fomine3 3y ago
Cutting trees to put solar panels is a unpopular idea. Roof is a free space. "Optimal" orientation isn't always optimal for grid because distributing peak output time is a good thing.