3 ms·

In the past 2 decades Germany has blown hundreds of billions of dollars into renewable energy. Now we have the highest electricity price in the world. It is all

In the past 2 decades Germany has blown hundreds of billions of dollars into renewable energy. Now we have the highest electricity price in the world. It is all socialism. Zero market :-(

ragebol 3y ago
The price is determined by the most expensive generator. Without renewables, prices would have been even higher
Aachen 3y ago
> Now we have the highest electricity price in the world. Imagine what that price would have been if the renewables hadn't been there and they bought only "green" gas plants instead. Or "green" nuclear, but we don't talk about that in Germany anymore
- looping__lui 3y ago
  Oh, but you are aware that we need to DOUBLE our installed capacity for gas by 2030 in order to be able to manage our electricity grid towards renewables, right? Page 25: https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ise/de/documents/publications/studies/Fraunhofer-ISE-Studie-Wege-zu-einem-klimaneutralen-Energiesystem.pdf https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ise/de/documents/p...
  - iSnow 3y ago
    Nowhere on p 25 can I find this. Maybe you mean p 27, and I don't get what argument you are trying to make. Yes, there would be more gas capacity, but for green gas.
    - looping__lui 3y ago
      “Green gas”. You mean Biogas? That isn’t really an option: https://www.capital.de/amp/wirtschaft-politik/kann-biogas-russisches-gas-ersetzen--32667834.html https://www.capital.de/amp/wirtschaft-politik/kann-biogas-ru...
      - adrianN 3y ago
        They likely mean hydrogen.
        looping__lui 3y ago
        Like an unproven technology at industry scale to power 50% of Germans electricity need reliably - all within the next 7 years? We don’t even have fast internet. Yeah.
        adrianN 3y ago
        What's industry scale? We have the technology to burn hydrogen and we have megawatt-scale electrolysis. What else do you want?
        looping__lui 3y ago
        Where do u get the hydrogen from and how do you transport it at the scale required is one of these “questions for starters”. Megawatt scale isn’t really gonna cut it - the largest one in Germany has 110 MW (?) so we would need almost 1000 of them to cover our need when the sun doesn’t shine or there aint no wind
        adrianN 3y ago
        You make it in one of the thousands of electrolyzers you build and transport it in the same way you transport natgas.
      - iSnow 3y ago
        It's right in your own source that they are talking about hydrogen. Page 27
chess_buster 3y ago
The energy is traded using Direktvermarktung and that's purely a market.
adrianN 3y ago
Come back with "market" once the CO2 price hits the real costs. Estimates I've seen range from 200€-700€/tCO2e. Until then we're borrowing billions of Euros from the future every year to burn more fossil fuels.

In the past 2 decades Germany has blown hundreds of billions of dollars into renewable energy. Now we have the highest electricity price in the world. It is all socialism. Zero market :-(

ragebol 3y ago

The price is determined by the most expensive generator. Without renewables, prices would have been even higher

Aachen 3y ago

> Now we have the highest electricity price in the world. Imagine what that price would have been if the renewables hadn't been there and they bought only "green" gas plants instead. Or "green" nuclear, but we don't talk about that in Germany anymore

looping__lui 3y ago
Oh, but you are aware that we need to DOUBLE our installed capacity for gas by 2030 in order to be able to manage our electricity grid towards renewables, right? Page 25: https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ise/de/documents/publications/studies/Fraunhofer-ISE-Studie-Wege-zu-einem-klimaneutralen-Energiesystem.pdf https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ise/de/documents/p...
- iSnow 3y ago
  Nowhere on p 25 can I find this. Maybe you mean p 27, and I don't get what argument you are trying to make. Yes, there would be more gas capacity, but for green gas.
  - looping__lui 3y ago
    “Green gas”. You mean Biogas? That isn’t really an option: https://www.capital.de/amp/wirtschaft-politik/kann-biogas-russisches-gas-ersetzen--32667834.html https://www.capital.de/amp/wirtschaft-politik/kann-biogas-ru...
    - adrianN 3y ago
      They likely mean hydrogen.
      - looping__lui 3y ago
        Like an unproven technology at industry scale to power 50% of Germans electricity need reliably - all within the next 7 years? We don’t even have fast internet. Yeah.
        adrianN 3y ago
        What's industry scale? We have the technology to burn hydrogen and we have megawatt-scale electrolysis. What else do you want?
        looping__lui 3y ago
        Where do u get the hydrogen from and how do you transport it at the scale required is one of these “questions for starters”. Megawatt scale isn’t really gonna cut it - the largest one in Germany has 110 MW (?) so we would need almost 1000 of them to cover our need when the sun doesn’t shine or there aint no wind
        adrianN 3y ago
        You make it in one of the thousands of electrolyzers you build and transport it in the same way you transport natgas.
    - iSnow 3y ago
      It's right in your own source that they are talking about hydrogen. Page 27

chess_buster 3y ago

The energy is traded using Direktvermarktung and that's purely a market.

adrianN 3y ago

Come back with "market" once the CO2 price hits the real costs. Estimates I've seen range from 200€-700€/tCO2e. Until then we're borrowing billions of Euros from the future every year to burn more fossil fuels.