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What do you think would happen if perpetual longevity were achieved? I mean realistically, not ideally? I think it's almost certain we'd see those at the top be

What do you think would happen if perpetual longevity were achieved? I mean realistically, not ideally? I think it's almost certain we'd see those at the top become [even more] vainly obsessed with their own mortality to the point of doing absolutely every single thing they could, with no norms of behavior, to ensure no other human could ever, under any circumstance - no matter how remote, pose a possible threat to them. You'd most likely have been born into society as something between a serf and a slave, with your life strictly by controlled to ensure you never might imperil the perpetuation of those who would almost certainly come to see themselves as Gods. And no, you wouldn't be immortal. That'd be too risky for the Gods. It'd be the absolute worst of humanity, frozen in time, due to the lack of death. And oh boy, imagine the punishments they could contrive for anybody who might indeed imperil (or even deny) their utter supremacy. How about a million years of torture, if for no other reason than to use you (and the millions of others granted similar accommodation) as warnings to the rest of society? I can say, with at least as much confidence as you express about there being nothing after this life, that this life will end. But the thing I can add to this, is that that's also a very good thing for all of humanity to come.

fractallyte 3y ago
This is precisely Emperor Cleon's storyline in the TV series Foundation...
animal531 3y ago
Would it be good for the species even if life was fair for everyone? One can easily imagine that it would create stagnation where very little would change over very long periods of time.
soligern 3y ago
Since we’re doing hypotheticals how about this. We colonize mars and have large habitation modules flotations in space. Humanity has a large new space to expand into and doesn’t have to curtail growth rates.
- inkcapmushroom 3y ago
  >doesn’t have to curtail growth rates. Eh, you can't slow an exponential growth with a linear gain in living space. There might be a lot of space out there but not nearly enough of the stuff we need to live in order to consider physical space the limiting factor. You might buy time but you'll run up against the familiar discomfort of too little living space again, and will have to downsize or expand out again before very long. Same as it ever was.
  - soligern 3y ago
    We’re not dealing with exponential growth in most of the world at this point. It’s on average around 2 in most places. So this would be a linear increase if that because the average is still dropping.
- somenameforme 3y ago
  It's fun doing hypotheticals on this. I'd actually argue that 'perpetual' humans would be much less likely to explore the stars! Take, for instance, the people who recently died on the Titan. They knew they were taking a risk going on it. At least one of them had also recently flown on one of Bezos' rocket launches. Their mindset is really easy to understood, as it also happens to be my own. They were looking to experience all that life could offer, because in the end - what's the worst that happens? Well you die, but you're going to die anyhow. And living a rich life, ended prematurely, seems infinitely more desirable than living a drawn out life, doing everything to minimize risk, where you die all the same but perhaps without having ever given yourself a chance to live. But imagine those individuals could have reasonably expected they might be able to live forever. I expect there is exactly 0 chance they would have even considered going on that sub, in one of Bezos' rockets, or engaged in basically any activity with any possible risk whatsoever. Because suddenly what you're risking, your life, has literally infinite value unless you happen to be suicidal to begin with. And this would pose a major problem for society doing much of anything. There's going to be a high rate of mortality for the first colonists on Mars because there's a zillion things that can go wrong, and we aren't going to be able to anticipate even a fraction of them. Who in the world would ever want to risk this if you could live forever?

fractallyte 3y ago

This is precisely Emperor Cleon's storyline in the TV series Foundation...

animal531 3y ago

Would it be good for the species even if life was fair for everyone? One can easily imagine that it would create stagnation where very little would change over very long periods of time.

soligern 3y ago

Since we’re doing hypotheticals how about this. We colonize mars and have large habitation modules flotations in space. Humanity has a large new space to expand into and doesn’t have to curtail growth rates.

inkcapmushroom 3y ago
>doesn’t have to curtail growth rates. Eh, you can't slow an exponential growth with a linear gain in living space. There might be a lot of space out there but not nearly enough of the stuff we need to live in order to consider physical space the limiting factor. You might buy time but you'll run up against the familiar discomfort of too little living space again, and will have to downsize or expand out again before very long. Same as it ever was.
- soligern 3y ago
  We’re not dealing with exponential growth in most of the world at this point. It’s on average around 2 in most places. So this would be a linear increase if that because the average is still dropping.
somenameforme 3y ago
It's fun doing hypotheticals on this. I'd actually argue that 'perpetual' humans would be much less likely to explore the stars! Take, for instance, the people who recently died on the Titan. They knew they were taking a risk going on it. At least one of them had also recently flown on one of Bezos' rocket launches. Their mindset is really easy to understood, as it also happens to be my own. They were looking to experience all that life could offer, because in the end - what's the worst that happens? Well you die, but you're going to die anyhow. And living a rich life, ended prematurely, seems infinitely more desirable than living a drawn out life, doing everything to minimize risk, where you die all the same but perhaps without having ever given yourself a chance to live. But imagine those individuals could have reasonably expected they might be able to live forever. I expect there is exactly 0 chance they would have even considered going on that sub, in one of Bezos' rockets, or engaged in basically any activity with any possible risk whatsoever. Because suddenly what you're risking, your life, has literally infinite value unless you happen to be suicidal to begin with. And this would pose a major problem for society doing much of anything. There's going to be a high rate of mortality for the first colonists on Mars because there's a zillion things that can go wrong, and we aren't going to be able to anticipate even a fraction of them. Who in the world would ever want to risk this if you could live forever?