4 ms·

I suppose Gnome is aimed at the Red Hat enterprise customer base. Those computers are no private systems, they are company hardware. What matters for company ha

by bzzzt 3y ago

I suppose Gnome is aimed at the Red Hat enterprise customer base. Those computers are no private systems, they are company hardware. What matters for company hardware is standardization: easy to roll out, easy to train users, which means a standardized, simple GUI. Building @hellodanylo 's dream workflow isn't the mission and doesn't scale anyway. If you want a custom desktop workflow exactly to your specification build it yourself or pay someone to build it. Expecting people with different opinions to do it for you for free will certainly be a disappointment.

thesuperbigfrog 3y ago
>> Gnome is aimed at the Red Hat enterprise customer base. Those computers are no private systems, they are company hardware. What matters for company hardware is standardization: easy to roll out, easy to train users, which means a standardized, simple GUI. This is largely the case: https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/gnome-desktop-project https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/gnome-desktop... As stated in https://lwn.net/Articles/600506/ https://lwn.net/Articles/600506/: "When a project is controlled by a single company, that company's needs will almost certainly win out over anything that the wider community may want to do."
- bzzzt 3y ago
  On the other hand, when a project tries to please everybody it will undoubtedly regress into a mess of options, toggles, extra buttons, have an atrocious UX and only be usable for the 'in crowd'. The few OSS tools I know to not have a terrible UX are tools built by a single author or a small team with a coherent vision. It's definitely a place where the bazaar model of software development doesn't seem to work as wonderful as with OS kernels or development tools.
  - thesuperbigfrog 3y ago
    I agree that there is a balance between customization and "cleanness" in design and implementation. However, I think the GNOME 3 and 4 designers went too far and alienated many users: https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-finds-gnome-3-4-to-be-a-total-user-experience-design-failure/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-finds-gnome-3-4... https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-42-the-nonsense-continues-7d96c3287f7 https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-42-the-nonsense-continues-... https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/wte7tr/gnomes_design_is_antipattern/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/wte7tr/gnomes_design... https://linuxreviews.org/GNOME_Developers_have_Made_Their_Moves_against_Themes https://linuxreviews.org/GNOME_Developers_have_Made_Their_Mo... https://www.osnews.com/story/133955/gnome-to-prevent-theming-wider-community-not-happy/ https://www.osnews.com/story/133955/gnome-to-prevent-theming... When a designer's "coherent vision" eclipses the needs of the software's users then users get frustrated and either fork the project or go to another project. MATE (https://mate-desktop.org/ https://mate-desktop.org/), Cinnamon (https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon), and Unity (https://unityd.org/ https://unityd.org/) exist largely because of how far the GNOME 3 designers went and how they were not willing to compromise their "coherent vision": https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=121162 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=121162 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1910 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1910 https://web.archive.org/web/20101129161856/http://www.pcworld.com/article/208708/canonical_ubuntu_splits_from_gnome_over_design_issues.html https://web.archive.org/web/20101129161856/http://www.pcworl...
    - bzzzt 3y ago
      The Gnome 3 adversity is ancient history at this point and in my opinion very much a fabricated feud to drive up news article engagement. Publishing an article with a few open bugs or a disagreeing opinion doesn't say much about the quality of the software in general. I find the latest versions of Fedora with Gnome very usable, also in comparison with Windows/macOS. I don't have a need for very specific customisations and I think the Gnome people know it's but a tiny percentage of their users that use the very exotic features.
JohnFen 3y ago
> If you want a custom desktop workflow exactly to your specification build it yourself or pay someone to build it. Or use a DE that allows sufficient customization.

by bzzzt 3y ago

thesuperbigfrog 3y ago

>> Gnome is aimed at the Red Hat enterprise customer base. Those computers are no private systems, they are company hardware. What matters for company hardware is standardization: easy to roll out, easy to train users, which means a standardized, simple GUI. This is largely the case: https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/gnome-desktop-project https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/gnome-desktop... As stated in https://lwn.net/Articles/600506/ https://lwn.net/Articles/600506/: "When a project is controlled by a single company, that company's needs will almost certainly win out over anything that the wider community may want to do."

bzzzt 3y ago
On the other hand, when a project tries to please everybody it will undoubtedly regress into a mess of options, toggles, extra buttons, have an atrocious UX and only be usable for the 'in crowd'. The few OSS tools I know to not have a terrible UX are tools built by a single author or a small team with a coherent vision. It's definitely a place where the bazaar model of software development doesn't seem to work as wonderful as with OS kernels or development tools.
- thesuperbigfrog 3y ago
  I agree that there is a balance between customization and "cleanness" in design and implementation. However, I think the GNOME 3 and 4 designers went too far and alienated many users: https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-finds-gnome-3-4-to-be-a-total-user-experience-design-failure/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-finds-gnome-3-4... https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-42-the-nonsense-continues-7d96c3287f7 https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-42-the-nonsense-continues-... https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/wte7tr/gnomes_design_is_antipattern/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/wte7tr/gnomes_design... https://linuxreviews.org/GNOME_Developers_have_Made_Their_Moves_against_Themes https://linuxreviews.org/GNOME_Developers_have_Made_Their_Mo... https://www.osnews.com/story/133955/gnome-to-prevent-theming-wider-community-not-happy/ https://www.osnews.com/story/133955/gnome-to-prevent-theming... When a designer's "coherent vision" eclipses the needs of the software's users then users get frustrated and either fork the project or go to another project. MATE (https://mate-desktop.org/ https://mate-desktop.org/), Cinnamon (https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon), and Unity (https://unityd.org/ https://unityd.org/) exist largely because of how far the GNOME 3 designers went and how they were not willing to compromise their "coherent vision": https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=121162 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=121162 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1910 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1910 https://web.archive.org/web/20101129161856/http://www.pcworld.com/article/208708/canonical_ubuntu_splits_from_gnome_over_design_issues.html https://web.archive.org/web/20101129161856/http://www.pcworl...
  - bzzzt 3y ago
    The Gnome 3 adversity is ancient history at this point and in my opinion very much a fabricated feud to drive up news article engagement. Publishing an article with a few open bugs or a disagreeing opinion doesn't say much about the quality of the software in general. I find the latest versions of Fedora with Gnome very usable, also in comparison with Windows/macOS. I don't have a need for very specific customisations and I think the Gnome people know it's but a tiny percentage of their users that use the very exotic features.

JohnFen 3y ago

> If you want a custom desktop workflow exactly to your specification build it yourself or pay someone to build it. Or use a DE that allows sufficient customization.