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> But rebuilding American cities with functional parks and high-density housing and everything in walking distance is deeply unpopular because Because you'd ne

> But rebuilding American cities with functional parks and high-density housing and everything in walking distance is deeply unpopular because Because you'd need to bulldoze everyone's existing houses to replace them with the high density housing to be able to use that city space.

anon291 3y ago
No you actually do not. My neighborhood is an old late 19th century suburb that slowly urbanized and is now "downtown". A lot of the original housing is still there but now converted to an office building or restaurant with a facade. The only thing stopping this in many modern American suburbs are useless zoning codes. When you mention allowing businesses in subdivisions people act as if you're suggesting a McDonald's and a Walmart instead of a local breakfast shop and cafe and a small salon and a cute general store. But that's really all thats necessary. It takes just a tiny bit to turn a house into a suitable business.
- Tade0 3y ago
  > as if you're suggesting a McDonald's and a Walmart instead of a local breakfast shop and cafe and a small salon and a cute general store I'd take the McDonald's and Walmart any day over the rest. In fact, I have a McDonald's and several supermarkets(including discount stores) within walking distance. In your vicinity you'd want to have your basic necessities, not businesses catering to those who can afford to buy their breakfast and/or coffee every day.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > not businesses catering to those who can afford to buy their breakfast and/or coffee every day. Thats literally what McDonalds is??
    - Tade0 3y ago
      That's a cultural difference I guess. Around here it's where teenagers congregate as their first stop when hanging out. I mean, there's even a haircut named after this phenomenon (the "meet me at McDonald's").
      - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
        I understand that, but I am not sure we should discriminate based on the class of the customer base.
  - bandyaboot 3y ago
    The existence of a local cafe doesn’t require that everyone go there every day.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
      It also doesn't require that eating there is prohibitively expensive.
    - Tade0 3y ago
      My point is that the tone of that comment suggests that the mentioned businesses are (or should be) somehow more desirable than a Walmart, when the converse is true. Chiefly, they're not essential and do nothing for those who can't afford to eat out or will go there once a month maybe because they're at work when it's open. A large supermarket with the scale and logistics to offer low prices and long opening hours serves the population at large, not just the affluent. And that's the first thing what you want in a thriving city, otherwise you're just making a theme park.
- bandyaboot 3y ago
  Wouldn’t you need zoning codes to ensure you don’t end up with a McDonald’s or a seven eleven in your neighborhood?
  - frumper 3y ago
    It sounds like they're ok with that.
- giantrobot 3y ago
  > A lot of the original housing is still there but now converted to an office building or restaurant with a facade. If you convert a bunch of detached SFHs to office and retail space...you've effectively demolished that housing. You've also now created low density commercial space which has the same space inefficiency as low density housing. Just because a converted SFH makes a business "cute" doesn't mean the space is being better used.
  - anon291 3y ago
    The homes near me that have been converted can contain at least a half dozen businesses.
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
Maybe the problem is that we just don't go far enough in the high density thing. What if we all got to sleep in tiny pods 80cm wide and 100cm tall, and we hot-bunked so that in any given 8 hour shift, someone else would be sleeping in our pods. We wouldn't even need cafeterias, there could just be a bugmeal extrusion port inside these pods. When you were in the pod during your 8 hour turn, you'd either be at work for 8 hours, or keeping physically fit on the federally mandated fitness treadmills. We wouldn't even need streets at that point, because where would there be to go? While we might not be able to implement this utopia immediately, it's something that all liberal progressive people should be striving for.
- thriftwy 3y ago
  You have described many plausible things, from how life is like on a submarine, to Ivan Efremov's future utopia.

anon291 3y ago

No you actually do not. My neighborhood is an old late 19th century suburb that slowly urbanized and is now "downtown". A lot of the original housing is still there but now converted to an office building or restaurant with a facade. The only thing stopping this in many modern American suburbs are useless zoning codes. When you mention allowing businesses in subdivisions people act as if you're suggesting a McDonald's and a Walmart instead of a local breakfast shop and cafe and a small salon and a cute general store. But that's really all thats necessary. It takes just a tiny bit to turn a house into a suitable business.

Tade0 3y ago
> as if you're suggesting a McDonald's and a Walmart instead of a local breakfast shop and cafe and a small salon and a cute general store I'd take the McDonald's and Walmart any day over the rest. In fact, I have a McDonald's and several supermarkets(including discount stores) within walking distance. In your vicinity you'd want to have your basic necessities, not businesses catering to those who can afford to buy their breakfast and/or coffee every day.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > not businesses catering to those who can afford to buy their breakfast and/or coffee every day. Thats literally what McDonalds is??
  - Tade0 3y ago
    That's a cultural difference I guess. Around here it's where teenagers congregate as their first stop when hanging out. I mean, there's even a haircut named after this phenomenon (the "meet me at McDonald's").
    - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
      I understand that, but I am not sure we should discriminate based on the class of the customer base.
- bandyaboot 3y ago
  The existence of a local cafe doesn’t require that everyone go there every day.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    It also doesn't require that eating there is prohibitively expensive.
  - Tade0 3y ago
    My point is that the tone of that comment suggests that the mentioned businesses are (or should be) somehow more desirable than a Walmart, when the converse is true. Chiefly, they're not essential and do nothing for those who can't afford to eat out or will go there once a month maybe because they're at work when it's open. A large supermarket with the scale and logistics to offer low prices and long opening hours serves the population at large, not just the affluent. And that's the first thing what you want in a thriving city, otherwise you're just making a theme park.
bandyaboot 3y ago
Wouldn’t you need zoning codes to ensure you don’t end up with a McDonald’s or a seven eleven in your neighborhood?
- frumper 3y ago
  It sounds like they're ok with that.
giantrobot 3y ago
> A lot of the original housing is still there but now converted to an office building or restaurant with a facade. If you convert a bunch of detached SFHs to office and retail space...you've effectively demolished that housing. You've also now created low density commercial space which has the same space inefficiency as low density housing. Just because a converted SFH makes a business "cute" doesn't mean the space is being better used.
- anon291 3y ago
  The homes near me that have been converted can contain at least a half dozen businesses.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

Maybe the problem is that we just don't go far enough in the high density thing. What if we all got to sleep in tiny pods 80cm wide and 100cm tall, and we hot-bunked so that in any given 8 hour shift, someone else would be sleeping in our pods. We wouldn't even need cafeterias, there could just be a bugmeal extrusion port inside these pods. When you were in the pod during your 8 hour turn, you'd either be at work for 8 hours, or keeping physically fit on the federally mandated fitness treadmills. We wouldn't even need streets at that point, because where would there be to go? While we might not be able to implement this utopia immediately, it's something that all liberal progressive people should be striving for.

thriftwy 3y ago
You have described many plausible things, from how life is like on a submarine, to Ivan Efremov's future utopia.