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I don't think they care about it having legal weight, that ship sailed long ago when they started advocating for just slapping SYMBOL_GPL on things out of spite

I don't think they care about it having legal weight, that ship sailed long ago when they started advocating for just slapping SYMBOL_GPL on things out of spite; I think they care about excluding people from using their software. IMO Linus should stop being half-and-half about it and either mark everything SYMBOL_GPL and see how well that goes or stop this nonsense.

Filligree 3y ago
I just don't understand why they're so anti-ZFS. I want my data to survive, please...
- rincebrain 3y ago
  My impression is that some of the Linux kernel devs are anti-anything that's not GPL-compatible, of any sort, regardless of the particulars. Linus himself also made remarks about ZFS at one point that were pretty...hostile. [1] [2] > The fact is, the whole point of the GPL is that you're being "paid" in terms of tit-for-tat: we give source code to you for free, but we want source code improvements back. If you don't do that but instead say "I think this is _legal_, but I'm not going to help you" you certainly don't get any help from us. > So things that are outside the kernel tree simply do not matter to us. They get absolutely zero attention. We simply don't care. It's that simple. > And things that don't do that "give back" have no business talking about us being assholes when we don't care about them. > See? Note that there's at least one unfixed Linux kernel bug that was found by OpenZFS users, reproducible without using OpenZFS in any way, reported with a patch, and ignored. [3] So "not giving back" is a dubious claim. [1] - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/01/linus-torvalds-zfs-statements-arent-right-heres-the-straight-dope/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/01/linus-torvalds-zfs-s... [2] - https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpostid=189959 https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpost... [3] - https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=212295 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=212295
- zokula 3y ago
  ZFS was made to be Linux hostile, the kernel devs are just returning the favor.
  - p_l 3y ago
    That's frankly speaking untrue - we have one off-hand comment by one person from Sun for this, and multiple claims opposite. Also, ZFS goes with the same licensing interpretation as Linus used with AFS.
  - olgeni 3y ago
    Was ifconfig made to be hostile too? :D (/s)
5e92cb50239222b 3y ago
We see how well "including people into using your software" works out for pushover licenses almost every week now, FreeBSD itself being the prime example, having lost three major companies one after another from its list of users, sponsors, and developers a couple of years ago. Not that there were many to begin with. What Linus and the gang are doing have been working out great over the long term (much better than any competition, at least).
- ksec 3y ago
  >having lost three major companies one after another from its list of users, sponsors, and developers a couple of years ago. Which three?

Filligree 3y ago

I just don't understand why they're so anti-ZFS. I want my data to survive, please...

rincebrain 3y ago
My impression is that some of the Linux kernel devs are anti-anything that's not GPL-compatible, of any sort, regardless of the particulars. Linus himself also made remarks about ZFS at one point that were pretty...hostile. [1] [2] > The fact is, the whole point of the GPL is that you're being "paid" in terms of tit-for-tat: we give source code to you for free, but we want source code improvements back. If you don't do that but instead say "I think this is _legal_, but I'm not going to help you" you certainly don't get any help from us. > So things that are outside the kernel tree simply do not matter to us. They get absolutely zero attention. We simply don't care. It's that simple. > And things that don't do that "give back" have no business talking about us being assholes when we don't care about them. > See? Note that there's at least one unfixed Linux kernel bug that was found by OpenZFS users, reproducible without using OpenZFS in any way, reported with a patch, and ignored. [3] So "not giving back" is a dubious claim. [1] - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/01/linus-torvalds-zfs-statements-arent-right-heres-the-straight-dope/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/01/linus-torvalds-zfs-s... [2] - https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpostid=189959 https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpost... [3] - https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=212295 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=212295
zokula 3y ago
ZFS was made to be Linux hostile, the kernel devs are just returning the favor.
- p_l 3y ago
  That's frankly speaking untrue - we have one off-hand comment by one person from Sun for this, and multiple claims opposite. Also, ZFS goes with the same licensing interpretation as Linus used with AFS.
- olgeni 3y ago
  Was ifconfig made to be hostile too? :D (/s)

5e92cb50239222b 3y ago

We see how well "including people into using your software" works out for pushover licenses almost every week now, FreeBSD itself being the prime example, having lost three major companies one after another from its list of users, sponsors, and developers a couple of years ago. Not that there were many to begin with. What Linus and the gang are doing have been working out great over the long term (much better than any competition, at least).

ksec 3y ago
>having lost three major companies one after another from its list of users, sponsors, and developers a couple of years ago. Which three?