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The two stage process using different skill sets reminds me of the old painting masters. Often the master would come up with the overall composition, which requ

The two stage process using different skill sets reminds me of the old painting masters. Often the master would come up with the overall composition, which requires a lot of creativity and judgement of forms, apprentice painters would then come in and paint clothes, trees or whatever and then the master would finish off the critical details such as eyes, mouth and hands etc. It makes sense to have different criteria of what good is for each stage

pkdpic 3y ago
not questioning the veracity here (I'm under the same impression) but curious if you have any sources on this, its so hard to find information on that kind of thing...
- jack_riminton 3y ago
  Yes sources on this are notoriously difficult, especially since the use of apprentices was an open secret. I did find this source which talked about Rubens and Rembrandt: "The structure of the work was usually as following: Rubens sketched and corrected the painting at the very end, and his "staff" was given the whole main stage. To increase the speed and efficiency of work, Rubens shared the duties: some of the pupils painted the background, others were focused on details — they worked on foliage or clothing, the master himself corrected the whole work and execute the most "important" parts — hands and faces." Link: https://arthive.com/publications/2854~Rembrandt_the_teacher_stories_about_the_arrangement_of_the_artists_workshop_and_his_five_pupils https://arthive.com/publications/2854~Rembrandt_the_teacher_...
- Zacharias030 3y ago
  I’d recommend to talk to any museum‘s curator of the old masters during a guided tour and they will be able to tell you a lot about it. Sometimes which parts were „workshop“ and which were the master are also visually identifiable by a schooled eye.
  - dustypotato 3y ago
    Hardly something anyone will do from the curiosity from reading a forum thread.
- Llamamoe 3y ago
  Not the same thing, but this is exactly how manga is made, and you can probably find a lot more about that.

pkdpic 3y ago

not questioning the veracity here (I'm under the same impression) but curious if you have any sources on this, its so hard to find information on that kind of thing...

jack_riminton 3y ago
Yes sources on this are notoriously difficult, especially since the use of apprentices was an open secret. I did find this source which talked about Rubens and Rembrandt: "The structure of the work was usually as following: Rubens sketched and corrected the painting at the very end, and his "staff" was given the whole main stage. To increase the speed and efficiency of work, Rubens shared the duties: some of the pupils painted the background, others were focused on details — they worked on foliage or clothing, the master himself corrected the whole work and execute the most "important" parts — hands and faces." Link: https://arthive.com/publications/2854~Rembrandt_the_teacher_stories_about_the_arrangement_of_the_artists_workshop_and_his_five_pupils https://arthive.com/publications/2854~Rembrandt_the_teacher_...
Zacharias030 3y ago
I’d recommend to talk to any museum‘s curator of the old masters during a guided tour and they will be able to tell you a lot about it. Sometimes which parts were „workshop“ and which were the master are also visually identifiable by a schooled eye.
- dustypotato 3y ago
  Hardly something anyone will do from the curiosity from reading a forum thread.
Llamamoe 3y ago
Not the same thing, but this is exactly how manga is made, and you can probably find a lot more about that.