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> What would you do with one on a device where every app is heavily sandboxed and there's no common file system? Access each app's sandbox to move/copy/exfiltr

by cxr 3y ago

> What would you do with one on a device where every app is heavily sandboxed and there's no common file system? Access each app's sandbox to move/copy/exfiltrate the data contained there, for whatever reason the user desires. Not much different from the way file managers are used on traditional desktop systems.

troupo 3y ago
> Access each app's sandbox to move/copy/exfiltrate the data contained there, for whatever reason the user desires. That breaks the security promise that apps don't have direct access to other apps' data. There's a reason you can't even access photos without an explicit user prompt. > Not much different from the way file managers are used on traditional desktop systems Traditional desktop systems never had heavily sandboxed apps with no outside access
- cxr 3y ago
  > That breaks the security promise that apps don't have direct access to other apps' data. No it doesn't. Giving the user the ability to get their hands on their own data is not the same as giving other apps direct access to it. > Traditional desktop systems never had heavily sandboxed apps with no outside access That's completely orthogonal.
  - troupo 3y ago
    > Giving the user the ability to get their hands on their own data Does the user have the need for that on an iPhone? I don't think a single app on my phone has any files I'd ever need access to > That's completely orthogonal. Of course it's not orthogonal
    - cxr 3y ago
      > Of course it's not orthogonal You questioned whether there was a use case for file managers when apps do not share a "common file system" and are "heavily sandboxed", and stipulated that providing one would break the security promise of not giving apps "direct access to other apps' data". Whether desktop systems have traditionally sandboxed their apps to the same degree is, in fact, orthogonal. It's a separate question entirely. > Does the user have the need for that on an iPhone? Sorry, but when I spot somebody moving the goalposts (and failing to acknowledge when one they staked out earlier was satisfied), my approach is not to indulge them by continuing to respond as if they're just like anyone else having a discussion in good faith. Instead, I say, "you are moving the goalposts; you are not asking in good faith". This is monumentally helpful in making economical use of my time.

by cxr 3y ago

troupo 3y ago

> Access each app's sandbox to move/copy/exfiltrate the data contained there, for whatever reason the user desires. That breaks the security promise that apps don't have direct access to other apps' data. There's a reason you can't even access photos without an explicit user prompt. > Not much different from the way file managers are used on traditional desktop systems Traditional desktop systems never had heavily sandboxed apps with no outside access

cxr 3y ago
> That breaks the security promise that apps don't have direct access to other apps' data. No it doesn't. Giving the user the ability to get their hands on their own data is not the same as giving other apps direct access to it. > Traditional desktop systems never had heavily sandboxed apps with no outside access That's completely orthogonal.
- troupo 3y ago
  > Giving the user the ability to get their hands on their own data Does the user have the need for that on an iPhone? I don't think a single app on my phone has any files I'd ever need access to > That's completely orthogonal. Of course it's not orthogonal
  - cxr 3y ago
    > Of course it's not orthogonal You questioned whether there was a use case for file managers when apps do not share a "common file system" and are "heavily sandboxed", and stipulated that providing one would break the security promise of not giving apps "direct access to other apps' data". Whether desktop systems have traditionally sandboxed their apps to the same degree is, in fact, orthogonal. It's a separate question entirely. > Does the user have the need for that on an iPhone? Sorry, but when I spot somebody moving the goalposts (and failing to acknowledge when one they staked out earlier was satisfied), my approach is not to indulge them by continuing to respond as if they're just like anyone else having a discussion in good faith. Instead, I say, "you are moving the goalposts; you are not asking in good faith". This is monumentally helpful in making economical use of my time.