5 ms·

It's an old rule that whenever someone says "I'm not racist, but", they are practically always about to say something incredibly racist. I think this can be ge

It's an old rule that whenever someone says "I'm not racist, but", they are practically always about to say something incredibly racist. I think this can be generalized to all forms of "I'm not X, but" or, "I don't mean to be X, but", and so forth. "No offense, but, <offensive thing>" seems to also be a common variation. Is there a word for this kind of linguistic construct? ( Possibly related: http://www.notracistbut.com/ http://www.notracistbut.com/ )

jacobolus 15y ago
I think your analysis is too glib here. [And since PG seems to be implying the same thing, that goes for him too.] It’s typically a way of expressing anger/displeasure/etc. without turning the comment into a personal insult. If I say “I don’t mean to be rude, but you made a grammatical mistake”, or “I don’t mean to be harsh, but your idea doesn’t make sense” what I mean in the former case is something like “anyone could make that mistake, please don’t take it personally, but I figured you’d like to know”, or in the latter case, “you need to clarify your idea, because you’re losing your audience; I don’t want to imply it doesn’t have any merit, but as currently explained the merit doesn’t shine through”. Being able to make quick softening caveats without taking up a paragraph is very useful, and our language is more nuanced and powerful for having these constructions.
- cyoste 15y ago
  My problem with this softening caveat is that the speaker acknowledges that he will present his argument in a way that will offend/sound rude/make him look like a jerk. Instead of priming my listener for thinking I'm rude/a jerk/etc. through admitting that I am, I'll just think of another way to gently criticize. Playing to one's emotions is all about being convincing, and "I don't mean to be..." is an unconvincing phrase.
  - ewb 15y ago
    It's a way to convey tone through text. Sometimes the same comment can be taken in either a rude or a helping way, and prefacing it with "I don't mean to be rude" is a way of saying "please take this in the helping way." When talking in person you can infer this through how they say it, but in anonymous text on the internet the disclaimer is helpful.
    - Mavyrk 15y ago
      I've often found that one is better served by saying "please take this in the helping way" outright as opposed to relying on over-cliche phrases like "I don't mean to be X." Being earnest and dare I say somewhat unique in your discussions can often produce better results than crutching on over-used phrases. This is a reason I stick to phrases like "I apologize for" over "I'm sorry for", or "I appreciate that" over "Thank you for." When words/phrases you intend to convey become noise or just another figure of speech, why bother saying them at all?
- davorak 15y ago
  I agree, part of the difficulty comes in when people use such statements not to soften the blow to the people they are communicating to but to soften any negative reaction people are going to inflict on them for a negative or criticizing statement. It is then easy for some people to read such a statement as "I want to make a rude statement, but not have people treat me as having just said something rude." or even "I want to hurt you, but not have people hurt me in response." The nature of text only communication with long turn around time means it is often for some to tell in between the two situations above. This is especially so for anyone who goes out of there way to blur the lines between the two.
- sedev 15y ago
  I'd argue that "I don't mean to X ..." has actually fallen victim to the euphemism treadmill ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill ). It can still be used earnestly for its original meaning, but that usage has been overtaken by the usage where someone essentially says "I'm not racist but - " and then proceeds to make a racist remark. This leads to the situation that your parent comment points out. Language, of course, varies, and we should keep in mind that some uses tend to crowd out others - but I definitely think that this is something like the euphemism treadmill at work.
  - kijin 15y ago
    I think it's also a victim of political correctness, which is closely related to heavy use of euphemisms. In many places these days, it's pretty difficult to make certain kinds of observations or relate certain kinds of anecdotes without somebody taking offense. "I once had an African-American roommate in college and he was..." "You racist!" "I met this crazy girl the other day and..." "You sexist!" No wonder people feel like they need to qualify their statements.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - ugh 15y ago
      Why do you explicitly point out race or gender? You don’t have to, you know. It’s kinda irrelevant most of the time. (And if you think it isn’t when you are telling some harmless anecdote it’s possible you might be racist or sexist.)
      - sgt 15y ago
        I do mention that all the time, because it's simply part of the story, and that is how I tell stories, with all kinds of (potentially meaningless) details. If people think I am sexist or racist because I mentioned that a "black girl pulled out a knife", then so be it.
Alex3917 15y ago
Etymologically the word obvious comes from ob + via, in other words something blocking the path (to understanding). But in modern usage it's of course used to mean the opposite, something that's trivially easy to see. Though ironically most propositions prefaced by 'obviously' are anything but. Anyway, if no such word exists, I'd propose propose calling them obvianyms, after what is perhaps the best-known example of the phenomenon. Plus, the fact that the term is actually an anti-cognate adds a third layer of irony, which is kind of cool in and of itself.
- gruseom 15y ago
  the word obvious comes from ob + via, in other words something blocking the path (to understanding) Are you sure it meant blocking understanding? I thought it was more like "in front of you", as in "you can't miss it". According to http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=obvious http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=obvious, the original meaning was "commonplace", i.e. something you're likely to encounter along the way, and the modern meaning "evident" doesn't appear until the 1630s.
  - Alex3917 15y ago
    Interesting you may be right then, my version is just what I was told by my latin teacher.
    - gruseom 15y ago
      It does explain how obvious and obviate got to mean conflicting things. It's pretty cool when a word evolves into its opposite meaning, but I can't remember any right now, other than slang examples like "wicked" and "sick" which don't get to count.
      - buddy_nuggs 15y ago
        invaluable? I suppose the etymology may be that something invaluable is so important that any value ascribed to it still does not approximate its true worth.
ktizo 15y ago
you just reminded me of one of those confusing stories from Godel Esher Bach.
kmfrk 15y ago
I think it's just an acknowledgement of the ambiguity of tone in the written word and of the tendency of people to always take away the most offensive interpretation of the comment. Some people use it as a preface to cushion their unfiltered invective, but it's in everyone's interest to give people the benefit of the doubt in recognition of the ambiguity in what we say.
waqf 15y ago
Paralipsis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paralipsis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paralipsis), or parasiopesis or præteritio as it was called when I was in school, means something very like what you describe.
flashingleds 15y ago
There was a great line in the old TV show Pretender along the lines of "It's my observation that anybody who begins a sentence "with all due respect" typically doesn't have it" I've always interpreted prefaces like that (along with its relatives "with all due respect" or the suffix "I'm just saying") as a way of turning the sentence into "This is an objective observation that should be made; don't blame the messenger". Used well it's a good way to strip subjectivity from some objective facts, used poorly it's a good way to project a subjective interpretation onto objective facts.
lucisferre 15y ago
I actually enjoy calling out passive aggressive HN comments like that. I probably should see a shrink.
rdl 15y ago
And when someone start a sentence with "Honestly, ", it is usually a lie.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
catshirt 15y ago
quite different, since honesty and rudeness are so often conflated. racism or not is a bit more clear. not that it invalidates your point, but does provide a credible reason to preface something with "i don't mean to be..."
stock_toaster 15y ago
I vaguely recall something from some sociology/linguistics/critical-reasoning thing I read once, but cannot recall the context or if there was a name given to it. It was discussed as a subconscious (sometimes) way to shift blame away from the speaker as an attempt to not violate (or lessen the violation of) some social norm. Almost seems like a cross between hedging and an assurance expression ("Everyone knows that..." or "Any seasoned developer would...."). Wish I could remember more. :/
v0cab 15y ago
Perhaps you have different ideas about what racism is? Originally it meant to consider certain races inferior.

jacobolus 15y ago

I think your analysis is too glib here. [And since PG seems to be implying the same thing, that goes for him too.] It’s typically a way of expressing anger/displeasure/etc. without turning the comment into a personal insult. If I say “I don’t mean to be rude, but you made a grammatical mistake”, or “I don’t mean to be harsh, but your idea doesn’t make sense” what I mean in the former case is something like “anyone could make that mistake, please don’t take it personally, but I figured you’d like to know”, or in the latter case, “you need to clarify your idea, because you’re losing your audience; I don’t want to imply it doesn’t have any merit, but as currently explained the merit doesn’t shine through”. Being able to make quick softening caveats without taking up a paragraph is very useful, and our language is more nuanced and powerful for having these constructions.

cyoste 15y ago
My problem with this softening caveat is that the speaker acknowledges that he will present his argument in a way that will offend/sound rude/make him look like a jerk. Instead of priming my listener for thinking I'm rude/a jerk/etc. through admitting that I am, I'll just think of another way to gently criticize. Playing to one's emotions is all about being convincing, and "I don't mean to be..." is an unconvincing phrase.
- ewb 15y ago
  It's a way to convey tone through text. Sometimes the same comment can be taken in either a rude or a helping way, and prefacing it with "I don't mean to be rude" is a way of saying "please take this in the helping way." When talking in person you can infer this through how they say it, but in anonymous text on the internet the disclaimer is helpful.
  - Mavyrk 15y ago
    I've often found that one is better served by saying "please take this in the helping way" outright as opposed to relying on over-cliche phrases like "I don't mean to be X." Being earnest and dare I say somewhat unique in your discussions can often produce better results than crutching on over-used phrases. This is a reason I stick to phrases like "I apologize for" over "I'm sorry for", or "I appreciate that" over "Thank you for." When words/phrases you intend to convey become noise or just another figure of speech, why bother saying them at all?
davorak 15y ago
I agree, part of the difficulty comes in when people use such statements not to soften the blow to the people they are communicating to but to soften any negative reaction people are going to inflict on them for a negative or criticizing statement. It is then easy for some people to read such a statement as "I want to make a rude statement, but not have people treat me as having just said something rude." or even "I want to hurt you, but not have people hurt me in response." The nature of text only communication with long turn around time means it is often for some to tell in between the two situations above. This is especially so for anyone who goes out of there way to blur the lines between the two.
sedev 15y ago
I'd argue that "I don't mean to X ..." has actually fallen victim to the euphemism treadmill ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill ). It can still be used earnestly for its original meaning, but that usage has been overtaken by the usage where someone essentially says "I'm not racist but - " and then proceeds to make a racist remark. This leads to the situation that your parent comment points out. Language, of course, varies, and we should keep in mind that some uses tend to crowd out others - but I definitely think that this is something like the euphemism treadmill at work.
- kijin 15y ago
  I think it's also a victim of political correctness, which is closely related to heavy use of euphemisms. In many places these days, it's pretty difficult to make certain kinds of observations or relate certain kinds of anecdotes without somebody taking offense. "I once had an African-American roommate in college and he was..." "You racist!" "I met this crazy girl the other day and..." "You sexist!" No wonder people feel like they need to qualify their statements.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - ugh 15y ago
    Why do you explicitly point out race or gender? You don’t have to, you know. It’s kinda irrelevant most of the time. (And if you think it isn’t when you are telling some harmless anecdote it’s possible you might be racist or sexist.)
    - sgt 15y ago
      I do mention that all the time, because it's simply part of the story, and that is how I tell stories, with all kinds of (potentially meaningless) details. If people think I am sexist or racist because I mentioned that a "black girl pulled out a knife", then so be it.

Alex3917 15y ago

Etymologically the word obvious comes from ob + via, in other words something blocking the path (to understanding). But in modern usage it's of course used to mean the opposite, something that's trivially easy to see. Though ironically most propositions prefaced by 'obviously' are anything but. Anyway, if no such word exists, I'd propose propose calling them obvianyms, after what is perhaps the best-known example of the phenomenon. Plus, the fact that the term is actually an anti-cognate adds a third layer of irony, which is kind of cool in and of itself.

gruseom 15y ago
the word obvious comes from ob + via, in other words something blocking the path (to understanding) Are you sure it meant blocking understanding? I thought it was more like "in front of you", as in "you can't miss it". According to http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=obvious http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=obvious, the original meaning was "commonplace", i.e. something you're likely to encounter along the way, and the modern meaning "evident" doesn't appear until the 1630s.
- Alex3917 15y ago
  Interesting you may be right then, my version is just what I was told by my latin teacher.
  - gruseom 15y ago
    It does explain how obvious and obviate got to mean conflicting things. It's pretty cool when a word evolves into its opposite meaning, but I can't remember any right now, other than slang examples like "wicked" and "sick" which don't get to count.
    - buddy_nuggs 15y ago
      invaluable? I suppose the etymology may be that something invaluable is so important that any value ascribed to it still does not approximate its true worth.

ktizo 15y ago

you just reminded me of one of those confusing stories from Godel Esher Bach.

kmfrk 15y ago

I think it's just an acknowledgement of the ambiguity of tone in the written word and of the tendency of people to always take away the most offensive interpretation of the comment. Some people use it as a preface to cushion their unfiltered invective, but it's in everyone's interest to give people the benefit of the doubt in recognition of the ambiguity in what we say.

waqf 15y ago

Paralipsis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paralipsis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paralipsis), or parasiopesis or præteritio as it was called when I was in school, means something very like what you describe.

flashingleds 15y ago

There was a great line in the old TV show Pretender along the lines of "It's my observation that anybody who begins a sentence "with all due respect" typically doesn't have it" I've always interpreted prefaces like that (along with its relatives "with all due respect" or the suffix "I'm just saying") as a way of turning the sentence into "This is an objective observation that should be made; don't blame the messenger". Used well it's a good way to strip subjectivity from some objective facts, used poorly it's a good way to project a subjective interpretation onto objective facts.

lucisferre 15y ago

I actually enjoy calling out passive aggressive HN comments like that. I probably should see a shrink.

rdl 15y ago

And when someone start a sentence with "Honestly, ", it is usually a lie.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

catshirt 15y ago

quite different, since honesty and rudeness are so often conflated. racism or not is a bit more clear. not that it invalidates your point, but does provide a credible reason to preface something with "i don't mean to be..."

stock_toaster 15y ago

I vaguely recall something from some sociology/linguistics/critical-reasoning thing I read once, but cannot recall the context or if there was a name given to it. It was discussed as a subconscious (sometimes) way to shift blame away from the speaker as an attempt to not violate (or lessen the violation of) some social norm. Almost seems like a cross between hedging and an assurance expression ("Everyone knows that..." or "Any seasoned developer would...."). Wish I could remember more. :/

v0cab 15y ago

Perhaps you have different ideas about what racism is? Originally it meant to consider certain races inferior.