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I have a hard time believing such researchers. It's just way too politically convenient that they can pull such explanations and numbers out. It always feels as

I have a hard time believing such researchers. It's just way too politically convenient that they can pull such explanations and numbers out. It always feels as though that these policy advisors can support any position and if it eventually goes wrong then nobody will blame them anyway. I personally think phones definitely shouldn't be used in a classroom. I don't even see what benefit you would get from it, but it definitely shouldn't be legislated over. If a teacher or school wants to ban it then they should be able to.

meesaltena 3y ago
> way too politically convenient why do you presuppose a political motive for the researchers? What's political about this?
- tomsmeding 3y ago
  Independent of any judgement of the particular research at hand: everything about this is political. Lots of people, in particular parents but also others, dislike and fear that young people are losing their life on "screens", i.e. mostly smartphones, gaming. Note the "dislike and fear", which is fully subjective and fundamentally not based on evidence. This is regardless of whether there actually is data to support this position; the fear exists nonetheless, and data can only back it up or contradict their intuition. Most politicians have children, and most of the voting body has children. This is very much a politically charged issue.
  - meesaltena 3y ago
    Thanks. I can see where the person I replied to was coming from now.
- throwaway98271 3y ago
  It's political because the people pushing for it usually are conservatives who don't like the modern ways of life and/or education. It's questionable whether they actually want to help the society or just force people into their own ways. They might even think they're helping, but actually do the opposite. Researchers often do research based on their world view. Did these people also try to research what happens if they integrate the technology into education and teach children about the possible dangers of it, or did they focus on just whatever could confirm their world view?
  - meesaltena 3y ago
    Thanks for your explanation. I am just suspicious of anyone disregarding a study for perceived political convenience without any explanation at all. But I get it now.
  - andrepd 3y ago
    That's preposterous. I'm as left-wing as can be and I think that smartphones and social media are a plague. Anecdotally, in my experience my left-leaming acquaintances are the ones more likely to be aware of the dangers of social media.
    - throwaway98271 3y ago
      Then you and your acquaintances are unusual. In my experience, the left-leaning people are pushing for more digital learning. In my country, every left-leaning political party has it as a part of their program. In EU, there's an entire left-wing party based around digital stuff (Pirate).
      - Nasrudith 3y ago
        It seems to vary by country really. The US they are still on the social media is solely-responsible-Trump-and-thus-the-devil kick.
      - floomk 3y ago
        Digital learning on controlled devices is not the same thing as scrolling Instagram during class
- bigfryo 3y ago
  The Establishment wants to be the only channel into young minds, that way theirs is the only ideology to get into their minds.. with phones and social media, young people can get other ideas, Ideas that the establishment considers the wrong ideas
  - floomk 3y ago
    This is just about school hours... Kids can do whatever they want outside of the classroom. They didn't allow me to play my gameboy in class either, but I still played that thing for many many hours.
xp84 3y ago
No idea how things work in Europe, but over here if a teacher or school wants to ban (or heck, even allow: see “banned” books) something — even if it’s for good reasons, the loudest local parents that disagree will show up to school board meetings screaming at them, and challenge them at the next election. Perhaps the local officials would rather have the cover of a law than look like they’re being capricious.
- detuur 3y ago
  Belgian perspective, but what they use in various nations around Europe/the world is likely closer to our system than to the American one: We do not have school board meetings the way you do. We do have parents' councils, and parents' councils have delegates that represent all parents at school councils, and school councils additionally have delegates representing the local government, the school employees, and the students. The school council then negotiates with the school leadership (which is not elected, but appointed by national organisations). This is a lot more reflective of the "indirect democracy" principles that are common here in Europe. What this means, practically, is that unless you've got broad support for your initiatives you can go pound sand if you disagree with how your kid's school is run.

meesaltena 3y ago

> way too politically convenient why do you presuppose a political motive for the researchers? What's political about this?

tomsmeding 3y ago
Independent of any judgement of the particular research at hand: everything about this is political. Lots of people, in particular parents but also others, dislike and fear that young people are losing their life on "screens", i.e. mostly smartphones, gaming. Note the "dislike and fear", which is fully subjective and fundamentally not based on evidence. This is regardless of whether there actually is data to support this position; the fear exists nonetheless, and data can only back it up or contradict their intuition. Most politicians have children, and most of the voting body has children. This is very much a politically charged issue.
- meesaltena 3y ago
  Thanks. I can see where the person I replied to was coming from now.
throwaway98271 3y ago
It's political because the people pushing for it usually are conservatives who don't like the modern ways of life and/or education. It's questionable whether they actually want to help the society or just force people into their own ways. They might even think they're helping, but actually do the opposite. Researchers often do research based on their world view. Did these people also try to research what happens if they integrate the technology into education and teach children about the possible dangers of it, or did they focus on just whatever could confirm their world view?
- meesaltena 3y ago
  Thanks for your explanation. I am just suspicious of anyone disregarding a study for perceived political convenience without any explanation at all. But I get it now.
- andrepd 3y ago
  That's preposterous. I'm as left-wing as can be and I think that smartphones and social media are a plague. Anecdotally, in my experience my left-leaming acquaintances are the ones more likely to be aware of the dangers of social media.
  - throwaway98271 3y ago
    Then you and your acquaintances are unusual. In my experience, the left-leaning people are pushing for more digital learning. In my country, every left-leaning political party has it as a part of their program. In EU, there's an entire left-wing party based around digital stuff (Pirate).
    - Nasrudith 3y ago
      It seems to vary by country really. The US they are still on the social media is solely-responsible-Trump-and-thus-the-devil kick.
    - floomk 3y ago
      Digital learning on controlled devices is not the same thing as scrolling Instagram during class
bigfryo 3y ago
The Establishment wants to be the only channel into young minds, that way theirs is the only ideology to get into their minds.. with phones and social media, young people can get other ideas, Ideas that the establishment considers the wrong ideas
- floomk 3y ago
  This is just about school hours... Kids can do whatever they want outside of the classroom. They didn't allow me to play my gameboy in class either, but I still played that thing for many many hours.

xp84 3y ago

No idea how things work in Europe, but over here if a teacher or school wants to ban (or heck, even allow: see “banned” books) something — even if it’s for good reasons, the loudest local parents that disagree will show up to school board meetings screaming at them, and challenge them at the next election. Perhaps the local officials would rather have the cover of a law than look like they’re being capricious.

detuur 3y ago
Belgian perspective, but what they use in various nations around Europe/the world is likely closer to our system than to the American one: We do not have school board meetings the way you do. We do have parents' councils, and parents' councils have delegates that represent all parents at school councils, and school councils additionally have delegates representing the local government, the school employees, and the students. The school council then negotiates with the school leadership (which is not elected, but appointed by national organisations). This is a lot more reflective of the "indirect democracy" principles that are common here in Europe. What this means, practically, is that unless you've got broad support for your initiatives you can go pound sand if you disagree with how your kid's school is run.