3 ms·

You don’t call telemarketers or solicit their services. That is quite a bit different than seeking out a websites content and circumventing the method that cont

You don’t call telemarketers or solicit their services. That is quite a bit different than seeking out a websites content and circumventing the method that content provider chose to generate income.

flohofwoe 3y ago
A web page which integrates ads from external ad networks is just as intrusive though. There's actually nothing wrong with curated self-hosted ads (which would be similar to traditional print magazine ads), but just opening up a part of your webpage to let a 3rd-party run potentially malicious code on my device is borderline criminal. From that perspective, an ad-blocker should be pretty much mandatory for security reasons and should be a standard feature of every browser, just like popup blockers are now expected.
- frumper 3y ago
  I don’t care if you use an ad blocker, but that is most certainly allowing you to view content you want without providing the intended revenue to the provider. That is just the reality.
  - flohofwoe 3y ago
    I'm aware of that reality, but tbh, I don't care either. It's a business model decision by that content provider, and if that business model no longer works (because for instance too many people install an ad-blocker) it's their problem to find a different business model that works under that new reality (just as they were forced to find a new business model when popup blockers became mainstream). It's not that there are no options (for instance a subscription paywall or a 'pay-per-view' solution, that would also allow to judge whether the content quality is actually worth anything to anybody).
    - frumper 3y ago
      Cool. Glad we agree that you want the content but don’t want to provide what they’re asking for it, and that you don’t care.
      - flohofwoe 3y ago
        Well, yeah, I also switch to a different channel on TV when the ads are starting. Does that make me a bad person? ;)
        amaroq 3y ago
        You have to watch the ad. Switching channels or looking at something else? That’s theft.
        qbrass 3y ago
        And don't you dare grab a snack or use the toilet until after the show comes back on.
      - j16sdiz 3y ago
        It's a good thing, actually. Lots of HNer talking pass each other because they won't acknowledge they don't care.
revolvingocelot 3y ago
You maintain a connection to the telephone network, which the telemarketers utilize in an entirely uncontroversial way to speak with you. "Using the web" is like "having a telephone", in that I can select what I wish to experience, and screen out that which I don't. Telemarketers have chosen to architect their business on the predicate that people trustingly pick up their phones and interact with those who call them. That social norm is fading; people screen their calls, or even use eg that Pixel phone thing in which a robot picks up, confronts the telemarketer, and texts the user. The DOM doesn't live out there somewhere, it lives inside my browser. Being choosy about which parts actually get displayed, as opposed to dropped on the ground, isn't taking food out of people's mouths, it's my failing to adhere to a social norm of naively rendering a webpage exactly as it's sent to me. It reminds me of psuedo-moral panic about WFH coring out once-lively commercial real estate and all its downstream consequences (eg, the absence of cubicle drones needing to go out to eat at lunch hour, etc) -- who owes who a living, and why?

flohofwoe 3y ago

A web page which integrates ads from external ad networks is just as intrusive though. There's actually nothing wrong with curated self-hosted ads (which would be similar to traditional print magazine ads), but just opening up a part of your webpage to let a 3rd-party run potentially malicious code on my device is borderline criminal. From that perspective, an ad-blocker should be pretty much mandatory for security reasons and should be a standard feature of every browser, just like popup blockers are now expected.

frumper 3y ago
I don’t care if you use an ad blocker, but that is most certainly allowing you to view content you want without providing the intended revenue to the provider. That is just the reality.
- flohofwoe 3y ago
  I'm aware of that reality, but tbh, I don't care either. It's a business model decision by that content provider, and if that business model no longer works (because for instance too many people install an ad-blocker) it's their problem to find a different business model that works under that new reality (just as they were forced to find a new business model when popup blockers became mainstream). It's not that there are no options (for instance a subscription paywall or a 'pay-per-view' solution, that would also allow to judge whether the content quality is actually worth anything to anybody).
  - frumper 3y ago
    Cool. Glad we agree that you want the content but don’t want to provide what they’re asking for it, and that you don’t care.
    - flohofwoe 3y ago
      Well, yeah, I also switch to a different channel on TV when the ads are starting. Does that make me a bad person? ;)
      - amaroq 3y ago
        You have to watch the ad. Switching channels or looking at something else? That’s theft.
        qbrass 3y ago
        And don't you dare grab a snack or use the toilet until after the show comes back on.
    - j16sdiz 3y ago
      It's a good thing, actually. Lots of HNer talking pass each other because they won't acknowledge they don't care.

revolvingocelot 3y ago

You maintain a connection to the telephone network, which the telemarketers utilize in an entirely uncontroversial way to speak with you. "Using the web" is like "having a telephone", in that I can select what I wish to experience, and screen out that which I don't. Telemarketers have chosen to architect their business on the predicate that people trustingly pick up their phones and interact with those who call them. That social norm is fading; people screen their calls, or even use eg that Pixel phone thing in which a robot picks up, confronts the telemarketer, and texts the user. The DOM doesn't live out there somewhere, it lives inside my browser. Being choosy about which parts actually get displayed, as opposed to dropped on the ground, isn't taking food out of people's mouths, it's my failing to adhere to a social norm of naively rendering a webpage exactly as it's sent to me. It reminds me of psuedo-moral panic about WFH coring out once-lively commercial real estate and all its downstream consequences (eg, the absence of cubicle drones needing to go out to eat at lunch hour, etc) -- who owes who a living, and why?