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I’m rather disturbed by the discompassion society has towards people without smartphones. Be it menus at restaurants, banking apps (as you mention), or even map

I’m rather disturbed by the discompassion society has towards people without smartphones. Be it menus at restaurants, banking apps (as you mention), or even map availability. We just assume everyone is connected all the time and that phones never break or have issues. I feel crazy, because my phone is constantly misbehaving.

TotalCrackpot 3y ago
Industrial society is coercive towards people that want to live more primitive life than one deem normal, that's essentially main thesis of anarcho-primitivists. Still, I don't think Luddites should ban for other people their technology. Why not ban electricity and cars too?
- xethos 3y ago
  I'm not asking others to give up smartphones, just like I'm not asking others to give up stairs or cars. I only want the world to remain accessible to those without. Keep paper menus, build a ramp, and maintain cycling or public transit infrastructure.
  - TotalCrackpot 3y ago
    Ok, I agree with that. I think there should be more effort put towards infrastructure for people with disabilities too.
SoftTalker 3y ago
I think this is overstated. I can't think of anything essential I cannot do without a smartphone or computer. You have to do it like it's 1985, which is foreign to the last generation or two, but it's still doable.
- logifail 3y ago
  > I can't think of anything essential I cannot do without a smartphone or computer [..] it's still doable Q: Have you never been to a restaurant which has done away with physical menus ("because Covid") and has a QR code which you're supposed to scan with your device?
  - canjobear 3y ago
    I’ve never been to one that wouldn’t dig up a physical menu on request.
    - logifail 3y ago
      > I’ve never been to one that wouldn’t dig up a physical menu on request. Well, we have been to one (in Switzerland, as it happens) despite having been seated we got up and walked out once it was clear they expected us to get on the Internet to look at their menu. Their loss.
    - jononomo 3y ago
      I have
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Yeah, I just ask the waiter what's good here?
    - jononomo 3y ago
      And then you ask the waiter what the price is, too? And then, when that seems a bit much, you ask him what else is good and what the price of that is? But if that doesn't strike your fancy, then you ask him what a third good thing is and how much it costs? Or do you always just eat the first thing anyone tells you to eat and then pay whatever they demand?
wonnage 3y ago
It's even worse in Asia, lots of things require an app tied to local phone number. It's at the point where you literally can't pay for things, call a cab, etc. as a tourist
- AlchemistCamp 3y ago
  The worseness must not be evenly distributed. I live in Asia, albeit not as a tourist, and have none of those problems.
ThrowawayR2 3y ago
I have an elderly relative with dementia who is unable to use a smartphone but the local grocery chains provide discounts for their weekly sales through smartphone based digital coupons. The open irritation and verbal abuse they get from cashiers who have to go through their alternate manual process for entering those digital coupon discounts is depressing. They aren't alone either, e.g. https://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/dont-waste-your-money/seniors-and-tech-challenged-struggle-to-use-digital-coupons https://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/dont-waste-your-money/se...

TotalCrackpot 3y ago

Industrial society is coercive towards people that want to live more primitive life than one deem normal, that's essentially main thesis of anarcho-primitivists. Still, I don't think Luddites should ban for other people their technology. Why not ban electricity and cars too?

xethos 3y ago
I'm not asking others to give up smartphones, just like I'm not asking others to give up stairs or cars. I only want the world to remain accessible to those without. Keep paper menus, build a ramp, and maintain cycling or public transit infrastructure.
- TotalCrackpot 3y ago
  Ok, I agree with that. I think there should be more effort put towards infrastructure for people with disabilities too.

SoftTalker 3y ago

I think this is overstated. I can't think of anything essential I cannot do without a smartphone or computer. You have to do it like it's 1985, which is foreign to the last generation or two, but it's still doable.

logifail 3y ago
> I can't think of anything essential I cannot do without a smartphone or computer [..] it's still doable Q: Have you never been to a restaurant which has done away with physical menus ("because Covid") and has a QR code which you're supposed to scan with your device?
- canjobear 3y ago
  I’ve never been to one that wouldn’t dig up a physical menu on request.
  - logifail 3y ago
    > I’ve never been to one that wouldn’t dig up a physical menu on request. Well, we have been to one (in Switzerland, as it happens) despite having been seated we got up and walked out once it was clear they expected us to get on the Internet to look at their menu. Their loss.
  - jononomo 3y ago
    I have
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Yeah, I just ask the waiter what's good here?
  - jononomo 3y ago
    And then you ask the waiter what the price is, too? And then, when that seems a bit much, you ask him what else is good and what the price of that is? But if that doesn't strike your fancy, then you ask him what a third good thing is and how much it costs? Or do you always just eat the first thing anyone tells you to eat and then pay whatever they demand?

wonnage 3y ago

It's even worse in Asia, lots of things require an app tied to local phone number. It's at the point where you literally can't pay for things, call a cab, etc. as a tourist

AlchemistCamp 3y ago
The worseness must not be evenly distributed. I live in Asia, albeit not as a tourist, and have none of those problems.

ThrowawayR2 3y ago

I have an elderly relative with dementia who is unable to use a smartphone but the local grocery chains provide discounts for their weekly sales through smartphone based digital coupons. The open irritation and verbal abuse they get from cashiers who have to go through their alternate manual process for entering those digital coupon discounts is depressing. They aren't alone either, e.g. https://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/dont-waste-your-money/seniors-and-tech-challenged-struggle-to-use-digital-coupons https://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/dont-waste-your-money/se...