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> Since this law was adopted, there's been an increase in full building graffiti, which is not banned. Now 10 years later, it is more likely to see one of these
by kibwen 3y ago
> Since this law was adopted, there's been an increase in full building graffiti, which is not banned. Now 10 years later, it is more likely to see one of these nowadays than an empty outdoor frame
Nearly all of these look like murals, not graffiti (these are distinct forms of street art). Regardless, those photos are beautiful and I'd love to have those instead of billboards in my city.
- Luctct 3y agoNeither murals nor graffiti is art. None of those would have been accepted in any gallery some 30~40 years ago when standards were higher and the world didn't suffer from the high number of grown-up men who are hooked up on comic books and animated cartoons it suffers through today. A lot of it is just vandalism. None of it seems to be made by or for adults. 99% looks like it's made by some comic book fan on LSD. Always the same. Always the same. Always the same. Always the same. Always the same. That's just how shallow they are. I've heard stories of places being pressured or even threatened to cede their spaces to accommodate this form of "art." It's awful all around. Real art is deep, meaningful, timeless and doesn't need to be imposed.
- lucideer 3y agoI'm not sure if this kind of parody is against HN guidelines per se, but it's less common here than, say, Twitter, and as such is usually customary to add some indicator like "/s" or similar.
- crazygringo 3y agoJust so you know, the exact same thing was said about pretty much every major art movement over the past century and beyond. When you say, "None of it seems to be made by or for adults", the same was basically said of Salvador Dalí and Andy Warhol and Paul Gauguin and Henri Matisse. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :)
- lucideer 3y agoThose examples have some similarities, but - while they had their contemporary detractors - they were, for the most part, formally educated participants in the art establishment of their times. I'd liken it more to the works of Henri Rousseau or even maybe the French Decadent movement.
- mymythisisthis 3y agoThe funny thing is, the classical art of Greece, probably looked much different than how we think about it. It was much more colorful and vibrant, it's just that all the pigment washed away. https://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Original-Trojan-archer.jpg?itok=AByBSEbW https://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/l... Cities adding art back onto the walls, is probably closer to how the ancient Greek cities actually looked. Our classical architectural view of pristine white walls is wrong. https://exploringgreece.tv/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/parthenosnas-xromata708.jpg.webp https://exploringgreece.tv/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/parthe...
- ffgjgf1 3y agoI refuse to believe that the people who made some of the best ancient statues had an artistic sense of a 5-year old when it came to color... Obviously ancient status were colored but probably in a much nicer way. No way something like: https://static.frieze.com/files/inline-images/web-cg-h-102-a-cmyk-0.jpeg https://static.frieze.com/files/inline-images/web-cg-h-102-a... could be even close to the original ( considering that the Romans generally managed to somehow get skin tones more or less right in the few paintings that survived)
- mcpackieh 3y agoThe problem is they do careful analysis of statues and find evidence of pigmentation, but obviously they're only looking at the remnants of the base coat and don't see any of the careful detailing that almost certainly went towards making these statues look very lifelike (judging by the realistic quality of the sculpture itself.) And so the recreations look flat and uncanny because they're essentially unfinished.
- bigbillheck 3y ago> None of those would have been accepted in any gallery some 30~40 years ag Graffiti started showing up in art galleries 30-40 years ago.
- lostlogin 3y agoThere is a Banksy one on now in Glasgow. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/rare-banksy-solo-exhibition-opens-in-glasgow-180982411/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/rare-banksy-solo-e...
- tchaffee 3y agoYou're uninformed about it all being the same. The graffiti in São Paulo has a vast range of styles. I have hundreds of photos I've taken myself. This fine art I can see outdoors is one of the most pleasurable things about living or visiting there. I studied art in university, am an artist myself, and visit major exhibitions around the world on a regular basis. Much graffiti is indeed valid art.
- Luctct 3y ago[flagged]
- vjjsejj 3y agoTo be fair you definitely do sound like an “artist”
- oivey 3y agoI’d expect an artist to know that a mural is just art applied to a wall. That includes frescos like The Last Supper. Usually artists also don’t police and get so angry about other people’s self expression.
- lIl-IIIl 3y ago>"I studied art in university, am an artist myself" Garbage argument. Why? I would assume "what is art?" is a subject on which much time is spent in art school.
- lo_zamoyski 3y agoThat's not a question for artists, but philosophers of art, which, of course, artists can also do, but generally, most artists are really bad at philosophy.
- hypertele-Xii 3y agoUniversity begins with philosophy so the question would indeed have been asked.
- gnramires 3y agoArt that isn't made to make the lives of those around it better, is dead, or worse. As someone living in São Paulo, those murals are one of my favorite aspect of the city. I love them. Not that it really matters, but those large commissioned artworks are very much how Da Vinci or Michelangelo worked. I have little doubt they would be proud and amazed. They also reflect the sensibilities and thoughts of the artist in relation to the city and its inhabitants. I love em' :)
- Bloating 3y agoGood art sucks. Interpret that however you want
- NikolaNovak 3y agoReal art is deep, meaningful, largely in the eye of beholder, and far from timeless but always culturally interconnected. I genuinely don't know if you're trolling, or actually believe what you wrote? If the latter, I'd love to hear more. I vehemently disagree with everything you said but that's no reason to downvote - we learn more from opposing viewpoints, especially if new and hard to comprehend.
- soapdog 3y agoAs someone who graduated from an art school, let me be another voice here to say that you're absolutely wrong. Art is about intentionality and process. Duchamp and Wahrol are prime mainstream examples of that. The intervention in urban equipment is art. Making it yours, sharing it with the world, the dialectical dialogue between the mural and the surrounding cityscape, there is so much to unpack here. Also, comic books are art as well. Sequential art has been recognised by everyone with an ounce of heart and one of the main mediums for storytelling. Some even been calling it the ninth art just like cinema is the seventh. It is a medium unlike painting, cinema, or photography, one in which you can do things you can't in any other medium. I recommend checking out the following books if you want to move past your misconceptions: - The Work Of Art In The Age Of Mechanical Reproduction, Walter Benjamin. - Understanding Comics: The Invisible Art, Scott McCloud. - Comics and Sequential Art, Will Eisner. All those books are quite approachable and engaging reads.
- Luctct 3y ago[flagged]
- RobotCaleb 3y ago... they said, while wasting (in the true sense of the word, it would seem based on the quality of this comment) their time replying. Maybe tone it down a bit and be nicer? Even if they have a poor education, why would you publicly shame them for it?
- Luctct 3y agoRobotCaleb, kindly explain: 1. Why are you admonishing me and not saying a word to the poster who said "check out the following books if you want to move past your misconceptions"? Why doesn't that come across as patronizing to you? 2. Why is art subjective but "the following books" are not? 3. Where did you get the idea that art is supposed to be inclusive? Kindergarten teachers routinely invited my mother to go there just to show her, "Look at the amazing drawings your son has been making AGAIN!" Do you think my kindergarten drawings should be blown up and plastered on publicly visible walls? Seriously, I want to know.
- rodgerd 3y ago> None of those would have been accepted in any gallery some 30~40 years ago when standards were higher It's funny to see someone wax pretentious about standards in art when they obviously haven't heard of, say, Diego Rivera, and don't know that Haring's heyday was "30 to 40 years ago". You should have kept your mouth shut instead of embarrassing yourself.
- dkh 3y agoSo there’s no art in comics or animation either? Pixar’s Best Picture-nominated “Up” is too lowbrow, shallow, and lacking of artistic quality?
- ycomuser 3y ago[flagged]
- lucideer 3y ago> these are distinct forms of street art Can you elaborate on this? I've always thought a mural was just a type of graffiti?
- namaria 3y agoYes grandparent is splitting hairs. Mural means wall, graffiti means tracing or drawing. There's probably a few taxonomies out there but they will be arbitrary and the whole point of street art is to get around gatekeepers.
- micromacrofoot 3y agoehh not really, throw ups are different from tags which are different from murals - muruals often aren’t graffiti because they require more time, which tends to require permission
- mcpackieh 3y agoBasically the difference is that the mural is bigger and probably has the building owners consent, but in terms of aesthetics it's a tossup. Most murals seem to be abstract visual noise that is scarcely better than average graffiti, and on the other hand some rare graffiti is far above average. And then there are the murals with a message, which often end up looking like Soviet propaganda posters (or in fact murals, since the Soviets were big on murals too). Huge images of some local leaders linking arms with workers to deliver symbolic world peace or some tacky saccharine sweet bs like that. If I'm being honest, a lot of these Soviet murals actually demonstrate superior technical skill and aesthetic understanding than the murals in my town (many of which aren't worthy to hang on a mother's refrigerator): https://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/10/the-forgotten-soviet-era-murals.html https://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/10/the-forgotten-soviet-e...
- lucideer 3y agoThrow ups are different to tags but I still don't think that explains how graffiti is distinct from mural, unless you're trying to say all graffiti is unsanctioned, which... isn't really the case.
- causality0 3y agoAre building murals not associated with ghettos outside the US? Where I live you know if you start seeing big faces on walls you're in the bad part of town and need to be careful.
- lancesells 3y agoI live in NYC and I associate murals with mainly industrials districts. There are plenty of murals everywhere but if I hit a block that's covered in them I think industrial which I don't associate as a bad part of the city.
- larrymyers 3y agoNot in Chicago. The murals throughout the city are beautiful and are very welcome art installations. https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/dca/supp_info/mural_registry.html https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/dca/supp_info/mural_re...
- causality0 3y agoMost of those look quite a bit nicer than ours. I especially like the "lucky wall" one.
- renewiltord 3y agoI suppose it's because residents in the nicer parts of town are very active about not changing the "neighbourhood character" and consequently murals are not permitted unless they're already there.
- jszymborski 3y agoIn Montreal they are celebrated: we have a mural festival!
- monsieurgaufre 3y agoAnd they mostly appear in or near the downtown area.
- 3y ago
- carlosjobim 3y agoAlmost all of the city of São Paulo is covered in gang graffiti, buildings covered in these rune-like tags from top to bottom. It is extremely ugly, and of course also unsettling since it is a signal on who runs the city.
- eberfreitas 3y agoActually it is the opposite, it is a scream from those who don't really have a voice in the city. Really recommend watching the documentary PIXO, you can find the full doc in YouTube with english subtitles. [edit: suggesting the documentary]
- Carioca 3y agoHaving lived in São Paulo most of my life, I'd like to corroborate this. The groups tagging buildings generally have nothing to do with (other) crimes. The only unsettling part was the time I saw that that the wall below my 6th floor bedroom window had been tagged overnight
- carlosjobim 3y ago> Actually it is the opposite, it is a scream from those who don't really have a voice in the city. It is most certainly not. This romanticizing of criminals and vandals is not any kind of compassion. Who would like their neighborhood or home turned into a hell scape? Edit: To those who downvoted my comment, go look up some pictures of how these neighborhoods look when they are all covered in tags. Ask yourself if you would want to live there? But of course it's easy to be such a benevolent and tolerant hacker, when you don't have to live it yourself...
- eberfreitas 3y agoWell. "O buraco é mais embaixo". But by the tone of your message I can see there is no point in trying to develop this any further.
- 3y ago
- ufo 3y agoIn Brazil, grafite means respectable street art such as murals. For vandalism we say pichação, or pixo.
- d-cc 3y agoNow I remember why I used to come here thank you