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Standard VPNs just shift the point of trust from the local network/ISP to the VPN provider, so the question becomes, can you trust the VPN company more or less

Standard VPNs just shift the point of trust from the local network/ISP to the VPN provider, so the question becomes, can you trust the VPN company more or less than those local networks/ISPs? This depends on quite a range of factors (e.g. what country you're in, what your personal risk profile is), so depending on the answers there, VPNs are more or less useful (from a security perspective). I'd expect that a lot of VPN use these days is geo-shifting to get access to region locked content, and they're not a bad idea for that.

psychphysic 3y ago
I'd argue most people benefit by putting that data into another jurisdiction. I.e. can your local law enforcement ping an email over to your ISP and just be handed years worth of IPs accessed? Or is there slightly more friction? Put another way if I used an exit in Tehran how easy would it be to get my data for Norwegian law enforcement? Even if the end point was 4g in Oslo?
- 5e92cb50239222b 3y ago
  Looking at how insistent many authoritarian regimes are at forcing international companies to host data in their own jurisdiction, you're probably right. I live in one of those countries and definitely prefer certain VPN and hosting companies to my own ISP.
- raesene9 3y ago
  yeah the national law aspect is interesting, and I could see it really taking off as new restrictive laws get passed in specific countries. To take one example the UK Online Safety Bill could make access to a load of content trickier (or even cause companies to stop offering services in the UK) at which time I expect a load of UK people will start using VPNs to shift their traffic to appear to come from non-UK locations.
- cf141q5325 3y ago
  Especially as you are more and more at risk of wrongful convictions based on (erroneous) big data and stupid laws. Nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide only works with a perfect system which dont exist outside of fairy tales. Also dont think those are contradicting concerns. Be careful with what you trust which ISP or VPN provider with. Thinking you are good with just going with either category instead of the other is a recipe for disaster. Also worth mentioning that to lock your ISP properly out, take a look at hardware firewalls with whitelists and properly chosen signatures for the vpn tunnel. Especially if they are forcing a router into your home network.
anderber 3y ago
That's precisely what I use it for. However, lately, I've been using [controld](https://controld.com https://controld.com) to geo-shift without having to change connections. It works really well for that.
- throwaway2990 3y ago
  Is this similar to NextDNS but with Geo location spoofing?
RamenJunkie_ 3y ago
I use a VPN anytime I am out of the house on my mobile, mostly because it obfuscates things when it comes to advertiser tracking and ISP snooping for advertising data. Better local access security on WiFi points is part of it as well, but ultimately I dislike snooping for ads, which every free WiFi at large businesses is definitely doing.

psychphysic 3y ago

I'd argue most people benefit by putting that data into another jurisdiction. I.e. can your local law enforcement ping an email over to your ISP and just be handed years worth of IPs accessed? Or is there slightly more friction? Put another way if I used an exit in Tehran how easy would it be to get my data for Norwegian law enforcement? Even if the end point was 4g in Oslo?

5e92cb50239222b 3y ago
Looking at how insistent many authoritarian regimes are at forcing international companies to host data in their own jurisdiction, you're probably right. I live in one of those countries and definitely prefer certain VPN and hosting companies to my own ISP.
raesene9 3y ago
yeah the national law aspect is interesting, and I could see it really taking off as new restrictive laws get passed in specific countries. To take one example the UK Online Safety Bill could make access to a load of content trickier (or even cause companies to stop offering services in the UK) at which time I expect a load of UK people will start using VPNs to shift their traffic to appear to come from non-UK locations.
cf141q5325 3y ago
Especially as you are more and more at risk of wrongful convictions based on (erroneous) big data and stupid laws. Nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide only works with a perfect system which dont exist outside of fairy tales. Also dont think those are contradicting concerns. Be careful with what you trust which ISP or VPN provider with. Thinking you are good with just going with either category instead of the other is a recipe for disaster. Also worth mentioning that to lock your ISP properly out, take a look at hardware firewalls with whitelists and properly chosen signatures for the vpn tunnel. Especially if they are forcing a router into your home network.

anderber 3y ago

That's precisely what I use it for. However, lately, I've been using [controld](https://controld.com https://controld.com) to geo-shift without having to change connections. It works really well for that.

throwaway2990 3y ago
Is this similar to NextDNS but with Geo location spoofing?

RamenJunkie_ 3y ago

I use a VPN anytime I am out of the house on my mobile, mostly because it obfuscates things when it comes to advertiser tracking and ISP snooping for advertising data. Better local access security on WiFi points is part of it as well, but ultimately I dislike snooping for ads, which every free WiFi at large businesses is definitely doing.