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Japanese firm believes it could make a solid-state battery... The key word here is obviously could. Add one more to the pile of claims and beliefs floatin

Japanese firm believes it *could* make a solid-state battery... The key word here is obviously *could*. Add one more to the pile of claims and beliefs floating around that have yet to transform into viable products. I have been a Toyota fan from way back. I have owned a number of their vehicles. But in my mind, they lost a lot of technical credibility when they tried to apply political influence in a short sighted attempt to steer the marketplace toward hydrogen. This was really just a thinly veiled effort to prolong the marketplace viability of the internal combustion engine --- to the detriment of the global environment.

mavhc 3y ago
Japanese firm believes it could still exist in 10 years
loeg 3y ago
Another key word is "Toyota" -- even if the battery tech is great, is Toyota really going to start making EVs or selling batteries? Japanese manufacturers have been dragging their feet on full EVs, possibly because the domestic Japanese grid can't really support EVs.
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  possibly because the domestic Japanese grid can't really support EVs. The domestic grid has no impact on most Toyota/Japanese cars which are exported or built elsewhere --- often using engines made in Japan. This was about saving a large segment of the Japanese economy which is centered around the internal combustion engine and associated expertise and know how. https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/15/toyotas-team-japan-aims-to-save-internal-combustion-engine-from-extinction/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/15/toyotas-team-japan-aims...
  - FreshStart 3y ago
    Very similar to Germany. Als tooting the hydrogen horn.. Again similar to Germany. A wild pattern of sabotaging the successor by naming his little brother king emerges.
- sieabahlpark 3y ago
  [dead]
- Shawnj2 3y ago
  They’ve been selling the Bz4x for about a year now which is basically an electric RAV4
  - throwaway5959 3y ago
    It’s comically bad. The charging curve is horrible, entertainment system is a joke, doesn’t look appealing and has issues with retaining charge on the 12 volt battery.
    - jqpabc123 3y ago
      Not to mention the wheels falling off. It's almost like they released a bad car in an attempt to give EVs a bad name.
benj111 3y ago
Don't their hydrogen cars use fuel cells. Ie they use electric motors not ic engines
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  Yes but you're missing the point. The infrastructure needed to fully support hydrogen would take decades to develop. Starting with some way to efficiently manufacture hydrogen without using even more fossil fuels. It's the stall that they wanted --- to give them more time to milk ICE and adapt. There is no corresponding infrastructure delay for EVs which are already being adopted.
  - Projectiboga 3y ago
    Toyota has actually pivoted and partnered with Mazada to share tech to fill watch other's gaps. Toyota is releasing a full electric car in about 12-15 months.
    - jqpabc123 3y ago
      Yes --- they're now being forced to play catch-up after their ridiculous attempt at diversion went nowhere. Here is what they were spouting less than 2 years ago. “By promoting further collaboration in producing, transporting and using fuel in combination with internal combustion engines, the five companies aim to provide customers with greater choice”. https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/15/toyotas-team-japan-aims-to-save-internal-combustion-engine-from-extinction/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/15/toyotas-team-japan-aims...
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - _hypx 3y ago
    > There is no corresponding infrastructure delay for EVs which are already being adopted. That's an utter fantasy. We are nowhere near having enough infrastructure to do this.
craig1f 3y ago
Exactly this. Hydrogen is like crypto. It has just enough interesting tech to attract (using D&D terminology here) high INT, low WIS people. Hydrogen will probably never work unless someone comes up with a stable molecule that includes hydrogen, is large enough to not move through solid objects, and still retains enough chemical energy to be useful. Ammonium is one option, but it is highly toxic. Only really practical in cargo ships. Hydrogen also can be useful for inherently expensive things like rockets and jet planes. But never cars. It was never going to compete with electric. EVs have been slandered for so long that people just assumed we would come up with something better. But EVs are great. Driving an ICE car after being in a Tesla feels like playing a first-person shooter over dial-up.
- _hypx 3y ago
  That's a completely ignorant statement. Hydrogen cars actually exist and work exactly as advertised. There are no fundamental challenges. This reads like one of those anti-BEV posts from a decade ago. In both cases, the author is totally oblivious to the current state of technology. > It was never going to compete with electric. EVs have been slandered for so long that people just assumed we would come up with something better. Hydrogen cars are EVs. This is a deep misunderstanding of the issue.
  - alphager 3y ago
    The production and storage of hydrogen is expensive, had the downside of requiring a large tank in the car and is less efficient than just using a battery.
    - _hypx 3y ago
      The cost will drop to nearly zero, just like the rest of renewable energy production. Tanks are cheaper, smaller and lighter than li-ion batteries. Fuel cell cars are also EVs, just like BEVs. The "efficiency problem" is greatly exaggerated.
      - ffhhttt 3y ago

Japanese firm believes it *could* make a solid-state battery... The key word here is obviously *could*. Add one more to the pile of claims and beliefs floatin

mavhc 3y ago

Japanese firm believes it could still exist in 10 years

loeg 3y ago

Another key word is "Toyota" -- even if the battery tech is great, is Toyota really going to start making EVs or selling batteries? Japanese manufacturers have been dragging their feet on full EVs, possibly because the domestic Japanese grid can't really support EVs.

jqpabc123 3y ago
possibly because the domestic Japanese grid can't really support EVs. The domestic grid has no impact on most Toyota/Japanese cars which are exported or built elsewhere --- often using engines made in Japan. This was about saving a large segment of the Japanese economy which is centered around the internal combustion engine and associated expertise and know how. https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/15/toyotas-team-japan-aims-to-save-internal-combustion-engine-from-extinction/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/15/toyotas-team-japan-aims...
- FreshStart 3y ago
  Very similar to Germany. Als tooting the hydrogen horn.. Again similar to Germany. A wild pattern of sabotaging the successor by naming his little brother king emerges.
sieabahlpark 3y ago
[dead]
Shawnj2 3y ago
They’ve been selling the Bz4x for about a year now which is basically an electric RAV4
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  It’s comically bad. The charging curve is horrible, entertainment system is a joke, doesn’t look appealing and has issues with retaining charge on the 12 volt battery.
  - jqpabc123 3y ago
    Not to mention the wheels falling off. It's almost like they released a bad car in an attempt to give EVs a bad name.

benj111 3y ago

Don't their hydrogen cars use fuel cells. Ie they use electric motors not ic engines

jqpabc123 3y ago
Yes but you're missing the point. The infrastructure needed to fully support hydrogen would take decades to develop. Starting with some way to efficiently manufacture hydrogen without using even more fossil fuels. It's the stall that they wanted --- to give them more time to milk ICE and adapt. There is no corresponding infrastructure delay for EVs which are already being adopted.
- Projectiboga 3y ago
  Toyota has actually pivoted and partnered with Mazada to share tech to fill watch other's gaps. Toyota is releasing a full electric car in about 12-15 months.
  - jqpabc123 3y ago
    Yes --- they're now being forced to play catch-up after their ridiculous attempt at diversion went nowhere. Here is what they were spouting less than 2 years ago. “By promoting further collaboration in producing, transporting and using fuel in combination with internal combustion engines, the five companies aim to provide customers with greater choice”. https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/15/toyotas-team-japan-aims-to-save-internal-combustion-engine-from-extinction/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/15/toyotas-team-japan-aims...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- _hypx 3y ago
  > There is no corresponding infrastructure delay for EVs which are already being adopted. That's an utter fantasy. We are nowhere near having enough infrastructure to do this.

craig1f 3y ago

Exactly this. Hydrogen is like crypto. It has just enough interesting tech to attract (using D&D terminology here) high INT, low WIS people. Hydrogen will probably never work unless someone comes up with a stable molecule that includes hydrogen, is large enough to not move through solid objects, and still retains enough chemical energy to be useful. Ammonium is one option, but it is highly toxic. Only really practical in cargo ships. Hydrogen also can be useful for inherently expensive things like rockets and jet planes. But never cars. It was never going to compete with electric. EVs have been slandered for so long that people just assumed we would come up with something better. But EVs are great. Driving an ICE car after being in a Tesla feels like playing a first-person shooter over dial-up.

_hypx 3y ago
That's a completely ignorant statement. Hydrogen cars actually exist and work exactly as advertised. There are no fundamental challenges. This reads like one of those anti-BEV posts from a decade ago. In both cases, the author is totally oblivious to the current state of technology. > It was never going to compete with electric. EVs have been slandered for so long that people just assumed we would come up with something better. Hydrogen cars are EVs. This is a deep misunderstanding of the issue.
- alphager 3y ago
  The production and storage of hydrogen is expensive, had the downside of requiring a large tank in the car and is less efficient than just using a battery.
  - _hypx 3y ago
    The cost will drop to nearly zero, just like the rest of renewable energy production. Tanks are cheaper, smaller and lighter than li-ion batteries. Fuel cell cars are also EVs, just like BEVs. The "efficiency problem" is greatly exaggerated.
    - ffhhttt 3y ago