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> I meant manufacturing. That’s cherrypicking, and also leads me to believe you are not genuinely interested in having and informed debate. > I am not buying

> I meant manufacturing. That’s cherrypicking, and also leads me to believe you are not genuinely interested in having and informed debate. > I am not buying a Hue for that money. > I could not find a good summary on LED manufacturing after cursory search. I have, you must not have been looking hard enough. I don’t know what to tell you, buddy. Enjoy your high electricity bills, or alternatively your life with expensive, flickering, poor quality LED bulbs, I guess. I don’t really see this discussion going anywhere for either of us, so good luck with it all.

throwaway290 3y ago
> That’s cherrypicking, and also leads me to believe you are not genuinely interested in having and informed debate. It's not cherry-picking since my very first comment raised this issue. If you don't read attentively before replying that's on you. > I have, you must not have been looking hard enough. A position like "I know it's true but I'm not going to substantiate it" doesn't contribute much. > Enjoy your high electricity bills When it's dark I use a couple of dirt cheap dimmed regular bulbs and bills have been bearable so far ;)
- mcv 3y ago
  If you need a bulb that's rarely going to be on, and only for very brief moments at that, sure, an incandescent bulb may be more ecologically sound. But if you have issues with the ecological impact of the manufacture of LED bulbs, you can't use anything involving plastic or silicon, including computers. So yes, it is cherry picking to single out LEDs while ignoring the far bigger impact of every other electronic device in the home. It's the same as people concerned about wind turbines killing birds while ignoring power lines, windows, cars and cats. The argument sounds very insincere.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    > rarely going to be on Why rarely? Where I am it's pretty dark every night. > But if you have issues with the ecological impact of the manufacture of LED bulbs, you can't use anything involving plastic or silicon, including computers. Bring it up when we make computers of comparable capabilities from glass and tungsten I guess? > cherry picking to single out LEDs So sorry for sneakily cherry-picking LEDs (of all things!) in a thread about alternatives to LEDs under a link to the article that talks about LEDs and their downsides. Let's discuss plastic bottles and other environmental hazards instead.
    - mcv 3y ago
      Why rarely? Because you're talking about incandescent bulbs. The only way they're going to be more environmentally friendly than LEDs is in situations where they're rarely going to be on. Because they use a lot more energy when on. So if you have a storage shed that you're only going to look in once a week during summer, and then only for a minute or two, incandescent bulbs may be a great choice. But not for a living room where light is going to be on every evening for hours.
      - throwaway290 3y ago
        > The only way they're going to be more environmentally friendly than LEDs is in situations where they're rarely going to be on. Because they use a lot more energy when on. They use less energy if they are dimmed than when they are blasted at full power. They also allegedly last loads longer (will see). Also, I am yet to see supporting evidence that LED bulbs are e2e more environmentally friendly in terms of manufacturing and clean recycling than say tungsten bulbs. > So if you have a storage shed that you're only going to look in once a week during summer, and then only for a minute or two, incandescent bulbs may be a great choice. But not for a living room where light is going to be on every evening for hours. The opposite. If I need to find something in a dark storage shed I need very bright white light for assistance. That's not great for the bulb. While the key benefits of the bulb is it's easy on the eyes, dims with absolutely zero flicker, easy to wind down to sleep. Completely wasted on a shed.
        mcv 3y ago
        > They use less energy if they are dimmed than when they are blasted at full power. That's true for anything, and not a difference between LEDs and incandescents. > If I need to find something in a dark storage shed I need very bright white light for assistance. Which you can get from a bulb. > That's not great for the bulb. While the key benefits of the bulb is it's easy on the eyes, dims with absolutely zero flicker, easy to wind down to sleep. Which you can get from a LED. Both LEDs and incandescents can be bright or dim, both can be dimmable if you want them to be. LEDs offer a lot more control (some can switch between different colours, different colour temperatures), incandescent are more limited, but cheaper. And not as durable, and they waste a lot of energy when you have them on a lot when you don't need the extra heat they give. So they're great for short periods when you need something simple, like in a shed, and not so great when you want them on for a long time or you want something unusual.

throwaway290 3y ago

> That’s cherrypicking, and also leads me to believe you are not genuinely interested in having and informed debate. It's not cherry-picking since my very first comment raised this issue. If you don't read attentively before replying that's on you. > I have, you must not have been looking hard enough. A position like "I know it's true but I'm not going to substantiate it" doesn't contribute much. > Enjoy your high electricity bills When it's dark I use a couple of dirt cheap dimmed regular bulbs and bills have been bearable so far ;)

mcv 3y ago
If you need a bulb that's rarely going to be on, and only for very brief moments at that, sure, an incandescent bulb may be more ecologically sound. But if you have issues with the ecological impact of the manufacture of LED bulbs, you can't use anything involving plastic or silicon, including computers. So yes, it is cherry picking to single out LEDs while ignoring the far bigger impact of every other electronic device in the home. It's the same as people concerned about wind turbines killing birds while ignoring power lines, windows, cars and cats. The argument sounds very insincere.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  > rarely going to be on Why rarely? Where I am it's pretty dark every night. > But if you have issues with the ecological impact of the manufacture of LED bulbs, you can't use anything involving plastic or silicon, including computers. Bring it up when we make computers of comparable capabilities from glass and tungsten I guess? > cherry picking to single out LEDs So sorry for sneakily cherry-picking LEDs (of all things!) in a thread about alternatives to LEDs under a link to the article that talks about LEDs and their downsides. Let's discuss plastic bottles and other environmental hazards instead.
  - mcv 3y ago
    Why rarely? Because you're talking about incandescent bulbs. The only way they're going to be more environmentally friendly than LEDs is in situations where they're rarely going to be on. Because they use a lot more energy when on. So if you have a storage shed that you're only going to look in once a week during summer, and then only for a minute or two, incandescent bulbs may be a great choice. But not for a living room where light is going to be on every evening for hours.
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      > The only way they're going to be more environmentally friendly than LEDs is in situations where they're rarely going to be on. Because they use a lot more energy when on. They use less energy if they are dimmed than when they are blasted at full power. They also allegedly last loads longer (will see). Also, I am yet to see supporting evidence that LED bulbs are e2e more environmentally friendly in terms of manufacturing and clean recycling than say tungsten bulbs. > So if you have a storage shed that you're only going to look in once a week during summer, and then only for a minute or two, incandescent bulbs may be a great choice. But not for a living room where light is going to be on every evening for hours. The opposite. If I need to find something in a dark storage shed I need very bright white light for assistance. That's not great for the bulb. While the key benefits of the bulb is it's easy on the eyes, dims with absolutely zero flicker, easy to wind down to sleep. Completely wasted on a shed.
      - mcv 3y ago
        > They use less energy if they are dimmed than when they are blasted at full power. That's true for anything, and not a difference between LEDs and incandescents. > If I need to find something in a dark storage shed I need very bright white light for assistance. Which you can get from a bulb. > That's not great for the bulb. While the key benefits of the bulb is it's easy on the eyes, dims with absolutely zero flicker, easy to wind down to sleep. Which you can get from a LED. Both LEDs and incandescents can be bright or dim, both can be dimmable if you want them to be. LEDs offer a lot more control (some can switch between different colours, different colour temperatures), incandescent are more limited, but cheaper. And not as durable, and they waste a lot of energy when you have them on a lot when you don't need the extra heat they give. So they're great for short periods when you need something simple, like in a shed, and not so great when you want them on for a long time or you want something unusual.